Charged with Failure to stop during a U-Turn please help

Capes123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined:

Charged with Failure to stop during a U-Turn please help

Unread post by Capes123 on

I have been charged with Failure to stop or Proceed before green. Basically what happened was pretty simple, I'm at a big intersection with 3 lanes and I was just making a simple U-Turn and I arrived at the Left turn lane during green light (First car at the left turn lane) my cars position is just above pedestrian crossing rear tires would probably be at the pedestrian crossing not in the middle of the road (My reason for this position is so that I don't make a wide U-turn because I've seen some accidents happen this way) , the street was very busy mind you it happened at one of the busiest streets in Mississauga during rush hour around 4 to 5pm. So I waited patiently until I could do it, some cars ran the yellow light so when I initiated my U-turn I believe its almost red and as soon as I did after about 3-4 seconds later I saw flashing lights and pulled over to the side of the road as quickly as I could. This is my first time getting pulled over and so my mind just went blank I didn't know what happened and I think I was having a mental breakdown and I didn't manage to explain to the officer what happened, I remember the officer saying to me that my "U-turn is legal but what happened there?" and I just said "I don't know officer, I just made a U-turn" and then he went back to his car and then came back and handed me a ticket saying I failed to stop/ proceed before green and that was it. Sorry I know its a long read I really appreciate this if you could give me some tips on how to handle this, I have the trial coming up on the 23rd of January. A little more info, I requested for disclosure and they sent it to me the officer is claiming that he saw my rear tires behind the white line and front tires is at the pedestrian crossing and hes claiming that he watched the traffic light turn green yellow then red then he saw me make a U-turn, if thats the case then I think he would have been at the left turn lane but not at least 3-4 cars behind because I checked my side mirrors a couple of times and I didn't see any police cars. I know it's his word against mine so this make it really hard for me but i'm 100% sure that I was past the white line and my rear tires is at at least the pedestrian crossing and front tires passed it. Would it be better if I upload the disclosure and what do you guys think if my case, do I have any chance or should I just ask to lower the sentence? I really don't want this to be in my driving record and my insurance going up. I could upload sort of the diagram showing my cars position in the street if that would help. Anyway I hope you guys can help on this and again I know its a long read but THANKS.


Whenaxis
Member
Member
Posts: 121
Joined:

Unread post by Whenaxis on

The disclosure that you received can be particularly helpful for your case. Even if the officer claims that your front tires were at the pedestrian crossing, that means you were technically already in the intersection. You can bring this up when you cross-examine the officer. If you are already in the intersection when the light turns red, you're allowed to proceed.

144(1) “intersection” includes any portion of a highway indicated by markings on the surface of the roadway as a crossing place for pedestrians; (“intersection”)

If you choose to testify that you were already in the intersection when the light turned red, the justice will conduct an R. v. W.(D.) analysis and s/he will acquit you even with the officer's testimony, if the justice believes that you are credible and if you are able to provide consistent testimony without wavering and without hesitation. The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed the offence. If you provide strong testimony, that brings doubt to the prosecution's case as to whether the offence actually took place.

Feel free to upload the disclosure and your diagrams so we can see if there's anything else that you can bring up.


jsherk
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 1722
Joined:

Unread post by jsherk on

What is the exact section number you were charged with on the ticket? What is the Set Fine amount on the ticket? Is ticket signed?

Posting disclosure notes would be helpful, but whenaxis brings up a good point.

So if you go to trial, remember there are two different phases you need to be aware of...

The first is when the officer is on the witness stand testifying. You will be able to cross-exam the officer and ask the officer questions at this point. This is NOT the time to tell your side of the story. This is the time to try and bring doubt to officers testimony by asking them questions about what they said.

After the officer is done, you will then have the opportunity to take the witness stand. This IS the time to tell your side of the story.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Capes123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined:

Unread post by Capes123 on

Thank you for replying. I have attached a birds eye view with some markings on the cars and the red marking is my car. I believe that's the exact position that I made when I entered the intersection during Green Light. I have also attached the disclosure but I can't seem to add the third part of the disclosure so I just used imgur for it http://imgur.com/a/OdHsr. Thank you Whenaxis for taking the time to reply and giving me advice on this and thank you Jsherk for clarifying the phases, I really appreciate it.
Attachments
disclosure2.JPG
disclosure2.JPG (47.36 KiB) Viewed 395 times
disclosure1.jpg
disclosure1.jpg (131.92 KiB) Viewed 395 times
Birdseyeviewwithmark.jpg
Red mark is my car
Birdseyeviewwithmark.jpg (113.92 KiB) Viewed 395 times


jsherk
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 1722
Joined:

Unread post by jsherk on

It looks to me like the officers notes state that "Rear wheela on stop line and front wheels were on crosswalk".

So you could actually take the stand and testify the same thing as officers notes and that you were already in the intersection per 144(1) definition and you just waited for when it was safe to complete the turn.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Whenaxis
Member
Member
Posts: 121
Joined:

Unread post by Whenaxis on

I agree.

From what I can read from the officer's notes:
- Observe traffic signal change from green to amber and begin to slow/stop
- Observe white veh. in left turn lane N/B end stopped as signal is yellow
- Veh. has rear wheels ~ on marked stop line
- Front wheels ~ on marked crosswalk (south line) traffic signal turns red _ veh. remains stopped
- Veh. then proceeds to make U-turn to S/B end L2

The officer described a perfectly legal traffic manoeuvre on your part.


Capes123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined:

Unread post by Capes123 on

Thank you so much for helping me out. Looks like i'm set, this gives me a such huge confidence boost for Mondays trial. As this is is my first my time doing this, should I know anything else or is jsherks breakdown of the phases pretty much it?.


jsherk
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 1722
Joined:

Unread post by jsherk on

+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Capes123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined:

Unread post by Capes123 on

I've read through the posts and that was helpful. Ill also come to the court early to watch for some of the other trials to see how one goes. I'll let you guys know what happens. Thanks again.


User avatar
bobajob
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 507
Joined:

Unread post by bobajob on

hey thats a good read, just a question and sorry for the hijack
you said "but NEVER ask a question that you do not already know the answer too"


why is that

thinking you want them to give an answer that would help you? nes pa ?
txs
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


jsherk
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 1722
Joined:

Unread post by jsherk on

Google "Cross-Examining the Police in Traffic Court don't go fishing" and look at some of the results and read the one that says DONT GO FISHING in the second paragraph.

If you don't have a specific reason to ask a particular question, don't ask it. Unfocused questions rarely result in answers that will help your case, and they commonly give the officer a chance to repeat damaging facts likely to convict you. I sometimes break this rule, but usually only when I know the officer has already given very strong testimony and I am out of other options... sort of a last ditch effort to find a hole.




+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Post Reply

Return to “Failing to obey a stop sign, traffic control stop/slow sign, traffic light or railway crossing signal”