If a stop sign doesn't meet the regulations, is it valid?

JohnnyKickass
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If a stop sign doesn't meet the regulations, is it valid?

Unread post by JohnnyKickass on

I don't have a ticket or anything but I stumbled across the Regulations for signs after reading another thread. The link was this:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... _ev001.htm

So I looked over it out of curiosity and found something interesting in the stop sign section:
7. A stop sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway, facing approaching traffic, at a point not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 15 metres from the intersecting roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 7.

8. (1) Where a stop sign is erected within a city, town, village, police village or built-up area, the left edge of the sign shall be not more than 2 metres from the roadway.

(2) Where a stop sign is erected and is not within a city, town, village, police village or built-up area, the left edge of the sign shall be not less than 2 metres and not more than 4 metres from the roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 8.

9. A stop sign shall be erected so that the bottom edge is not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 2.5 metres above the level of the roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 9.
So, when I pull out my drive way and head down the road in my city, town, or village, I get about 300 meters before I stop at a stop sign at the end of my street. This sign, I've noticed, is very near the corner of the intersection. It's just off the curb, maybe 1 foot from either road.

Reading 7 and 8(1) up there, it sounds as if the sign needs to be at least 1.5 meters from the intersecting roadway, and possibly less than 2 meters (depending which "roadway" 8(1) is referring to). The sign I see is not 1.5 meters from either roadway, so does that mean it does not conform to the regulations, and therefore is not actually a stop sign?

I don't plan on blowing through this sign every morning if that's the case, I'm just curious. I'm sure signs this close to the road are everywhere and it seems like it would have huge potential as a defense.


JohnnyKickass
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Unread post by JohnnyKickass on

Sorry, I was looking at an outdated version of the sign act. Now looking at this on:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... _e.htm#BK2

I see:
7. A stop sign shall be erected on the right side of the highway, facing approaching traffic, at a point not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 15 metres from the intersecting roadway or the nearest rail at a railway crossing. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 7; O. Reg. 63/06, s. 1.

8. A stop sign shall be erected so that the left edge of the sign shall be not more than 4 metres from the edge of the roadway. O. Reg. 63/06, s. 2.

9. A stop sign shall be erected so that the bottom edge is not less than 1.5 metres and not more than 2.5 metres above the level of the roadway. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 9.
So 7. still applies to the sign I see on the end of my street, but they've relaxed the rules in 8. slightly.


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hwybear
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Unread post by hwybear on

Probably to allows for sidewalk issues that the particular section was updated.

But, there is a "catch all" in the regulations, that covers unusual intersections/sing placement too.

47. Where the characteristics of a highway make it impracticable to place a sign or pavement markings as specified in this Regulation, the sign or pavement markings shall be placed so as to comply as nearly as practicable with those requirements
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


JohnnyKickass
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Unread post by JohnnyKickass on

Yes I saw that.

My particular intersection has the stop sign basically as close to both roads as possible, it is maybe 2" off the curb. There is a plenty of grass on that corner there that the stop sign could have been erected in. You'd think if someone ran a sign like that they could just take a picture, with some measurements, and be done with it. It's such a simple idea, because the two streets of the intersection are named on those little green signs just above the stop sign!

I'll be looking at the other signs when I'm out today. I bet many are setup the same way as mine.






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