Turn not in safety- collision

scion
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Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Hi, I need some help with my situation. In Nov this year i was making a left turn at an intersection close to home. I approached the intersection on a green light and being the first car in line entered the intersection. I waited till the light turned amber and then waited a few seconds more and after establishing that oncoming traffic had sufficient time to stop i proceeded to turn left. Thats when i was struck by a car travelling in the opposite direction. The curb lanes in both directions had been closed due to construction (not sure if that makes a difference). The damage to both cars was substantial, mine was a total loss and im pretty sure so was the other drivers. While i admitted to the police officer i turned on an amber, when i was struck the light had turned red. I wasn't immediately charged, but two days later the officer came to my residence and issued me a ticket with Turn not in safety, ( $110 fine & 2 demerit points). He also told me that after talking to witnesses, he charged the other driver as well with Failure to stop, as he said he had enough of time to stop. However, under the HTA he was forced to charge me (his words). He also told me to fight the ticket as and i quote he had " written his report in my favor".
I chose option 2 on the ticket, Meet with a prosecutor, and have a meeting scheduled in Feb 2013. My question is should i proceed with the meeting or just move straight to trial and see the outcome. After reading the posts on this forum i am unsure what the prosecutor can do to reduce the charges.? If i do proceed with the meeting, do i mention the officers words to the prosecutor and the fact that the other driver was charged, would this help me in anyway?

Please advise.

Thanks.


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Radar Identified
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by Radar Identified »

Technically... the officer did follow the exact letter of the law by charging both of you. It sucks, given that the other driver should've stopped, but the Highway Traffic Act does say that you need to ensure that it is safe to turn before you do so... and unfortunately that also includes watching out for red light runners. Anyway... I would still fight it. The Prosecutor may be sympathetic and reduce your charge, offering you something like "fail to proceed as directed," which is 0 demerit points and I think $60. Generally, in those meetings they don't really throw out charges, they just try to strike a deal with you. I'd still go and see what they say.

The good news is that because the officer wrote on the report that the other driver failed to stop for a traffic signal (I'm assuming this is the case), your insurance rates shouldn't be impacted and the other driver will be considered 100% at fault, in terms of insurance. (Insurance fault rules and the Highway Traffic Act are two different things.)
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


scion
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Thanks for your reply. Just 2 follow up questions: If i cancelled my early resolution meeting and went straight to trial, would i still get a chance to speak with the prosecutor on the trial day? Also, if i lost my case at trial, im still only liable for the cost of the ticket and the demerit points i.e. the charge cannot be upgraded in any way?


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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by bend »

scion wrote:Thanks for your reply. Just 2 follow up questions: If i cancelled my early resolution meeting and went straight to trial, would i still get a chance to speak with the prosecutor on the trial day?


Yes
scion wrote:Also, if i lost my case at trial, im still only liable for the cost of the ticket and the demerit points i.e. the charge cannot be upgraded in any way?
I wouldn't worry about this unless your ticket was reduced in the first place.


scion
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Thanks again for the helpful responses. Just wondering in your experience if you have ever heard of anyone beating a Turn not in safety ticket -collision, charge?.
In reading the forum it seems that the officer has to show up to court and in doing so, there is very little chance of winning such a charge, since the person turning left is always at fault as per the HTA.
Also, what could possibly be the defense that could result in the charge being dismissed and not plea bargained down to something less?


scion
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Just had my early resolution meeting with the prosecutor. Unfortunately, the other driver involved was also present and we were both called into the meeting together. The prosecutor seemed very nice and reasonable and offered a charge of " Impeding traffic" which carried a fine of $50 and 0 points. However, it was contingent on both of us accepting it. I was okay with it, however, the other driver (who was 17 years old,) and probably had other issues with his record declined the offer,as he kept mentioning his insurance rates rising. Therefore the matter now goes to trial. The prosecutor said that there would be 2 trials, one for the other guy and one for me. I asked the prosecutor if accepting the deal would somehow be unfavorable at the time of trial and he said No.
I also asked him if found guilty at trial, can the fines be upgraded and he said, most of the time they are'nt, however, at times it could be raised to as high as $1000.
Really dissapointed with the outcome, as i was hoping to put this behind me and move on. As i mentioned in my last posting, does anyone have opinions on what the best way to proceed with a Left turn violation defence?
Thanks again.


argyll
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by argyll »

Your issues are now split. Meet with the Crown on the day of the trial and strike a deal.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


scion
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Thanks Argyll for your reply. Just a bit confused about what you meant by ' my issues are split'. If you could elaborate more on that, please.
Also, on the day of trial, if the crown makes a deal and its not contingent on both of us accepting it and I do accept it, does the other driver automatically have his charges dismissed?


argyll
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by argyll »

What I mean is that you will each have your own trial set and your issue and the other driver's issue should be dealt with completely separately. You may still be able to make a deal on trial day.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


scion
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Re: Turn not in safety- collision

Unread post by scion »

Just received a call from the prosecutor telling me that he was willing to offer the exact same deal to me that was offered at Early Resolution : Interference with trafftic Section 170 (2). He said that it is a $70 fine ($50 + victim charges) and 0 points. However, the other driver will have his charges withdrawn as the witness was unable to recollect the color of the light. Since i was making the turn, i have two choices take the deal or go to trial.
Just had a few questions regarding the above
1. Once the deal is taken can the case be reopened on the original charge in the future.

2. Is a withdrawal of charges, same as a finding of not guilty?

3. Is it really true that this amended charge carries no points and is a minor conviction. I was told by the prosecutor that from his experience sometimes it shows up on the driving record sometimes it doesnt.

Thanks again.


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