School Bus Driver's Report and 6 demerit points



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Radar Identified
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by: Radar Identified on
Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:23 am

Section 175 of the Highway Traffic Act dealing with offences against school buses:

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic40.html

Unless the school bus driver identified the offending driver, the charge is laid against the vehicle's owner. Here is the demerit points table:

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... points.php

Police can only charge under subsections 11 and 12 if the driver is identified. Those carry demerit points. If not, subsections 19 and 20 are used, which do not carry demerit points. Same idea as photo radar and red light cameras: Owner is charged, but it does not go on the driver record (therefore no demerit points).
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Lady
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by: Lady on
Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:58 am

Radar Identified

how many year is this (this law) in effect????


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by: Simon Borys on
Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:45 am

A school bus driver's report is no different than any other witness or complainant making a report to the police that someone committed a crime which leads to their being charged.

A statement may be enough for a charge, but not necessarily a conviction. If the charge is challenged both parties must give evidence in court and the judge then weighs the testimony and all the evidence before him and determines if there is reasonable doubt or not.
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by: Radar Identified on
Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Lady wrote:how many year is this (this law) in effect
Since 2004.

Prior to that, the driver had to be positively identified for any charge to be laid. Now, if the driver can't be identified, a ticket is still sent to the vehicle's owner - if they get the licence plate.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Lady
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by: Lady on
Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:34 pm

thank you ... and wish me good luck ... I'v got a ticket for $490.00 + 6 demerit points based on school bus driver's report (who did not identified the driver or type of the car). My question is: since when police can issue a ticket using third party report without giving any demerit points. By the way I have a perfect 23 years driving record.

I'm going to court to fight this as I'm positive I did not pass the school bus.
I went to talk to the prosecutor, and now as I understand that was a mistake because she will try to correct the ticket. With 6 demerit points I had a chance to have it "squashed", without its bus driver's word against mine.


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by: Simon Borys on
Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:20 am

The police have no discretion over the points. That is an administrative function of the MTO. The police just issue the ticket and if you are convicted, the MTO will assign you the points. Neither the judge nor the crown has anything to do with points either.
http://www.boryslaw.ca
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by: Lady on
Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:11 pm

Now I'm confused ....

1. Police officer told me that I am charged with $$$ +6 demerit points.
2. Prosecutor said to me that, as it was the third party who reported on this traffic offence, demerit points will not apply just the $$$.

3. you're saying that MTO is doing it (I'm assuming) after (if) I loose the case.

So who's right????


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by: OPS Copper on
Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:45 pm

There are two different charges.

One is for the owner of a vehicle that is identified passing a school bus(bus driver's report) . In this one the driver is not identified so the owner gets the fine. This carries the same monetary fine but no demerit points



The second is for the driver when they are stopped passing a school bus.( such as a police traffic stop) This fine is for the driver and this one has the fine And demerit pts. The demerit points are applied by the MTO upon conviction. If you plead to this or are convicted of this offense the JP, or crown has no leeway to drop the pts.

OPS Copper




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by: Lady on
Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:38 am

OK ... so I'm back to where I was. Policeman charged me (as if he was present) and not the vehicle. And to make matters funnier.. I was at work a 1/2 hour away at the time of the offence.. but have nothing and no one to prove that.

There is one guy who stars work before me, but when I approached him the very same day I've got the ticket (which was 3.5 weeks after the alleged offence), he said simply that he could not remember his own whereabouts that far in the past. May be if police acted faster I might have a chance with this coworker and could have a witness.

I am innocent so I'm working on a plan to question both guys, the bus driver and the policeman.

For some reason my package included a lot of information, including that of bus drivers name, address, phone number, occupation, birth date and his driver license number. I'm positive that was clerk's mistake to include that in my package. This can't be a standard eh?

Any tips?


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by: hwybear on
Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:38 pm

for those to assist you, identify what you were charged with:

a) Fail to stop for school bus HTA 175 (11) or (12)

b) Fail to stop for school bus - owner, HTA 175 (19) or (20)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: Lady on
Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:28 pm

a) Fail to stop for school bus HTA 175 (12)


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by: Lady on
Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:47 am

:( hi all, still waiting for your view on my situation?


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by: viper1 on
Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:04 pm

Lady wrote::( hi all, still waiting for your view on my situation?
sec (11) OR (12)
Looks like they need a witness.

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