Red Light - Fail To Stop

t3ch9
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Red Light - Fail To Stop

by: t3ch9 on
Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:27 pm

Hey, i recently got a ticket for failing to stop a red light (Section 114(18)).
I was travelling south, the cop was travelling north. He was on the other side of the intersection then me, my light turned yellow and i tried running it but it turned red before i could cross the line. I was going too fast to be able to stomp the break so i had to run it through.

The cop made a u-turn, pulled me over and gave me this ticket. I checked for fatal errors but unfortunately couldn't find any, the fine and everything on the ticket was correct.

I tried telling him it was yellow but he said "nope it was a solid red". This ticket is really going to hurt my insurance, since I am a young driver.
This is technically my first ticket because my last ticket didn't get issued. This one 100% got issued because its electronically printed and not hand-written like the other one i had.

Anyways, how should i go about this to get this ticket dropped. What are that it will get dropped?
Extra Information: This happened in Scarborough.




bend
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by: bend on
Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:02 pm

There's no secret to making tickets just disappear.

There's two points in your post that get confusing. You say the light turned red before you crossed the line but yet you argue with the officer the light was yellow? I'm not sure I follow the reasoning there.

Amber doesn't mean "speed up and beat the light". Even had managed to race and beat the red light, you can still be ticketed for disobeying an amber. You're not exactly accomplishing much when the argument is "I almost beat it".

If you're going down the path of "I tried to beat the red light but I ran through it in the interest of safety to avoid stopping in the intersection", don't even bother. It's a contradictory defense. Someone who is interested in making the safest maneuver isn't trying to beat amber lights.

Either way it's an absolute liability charge. Either you went through the red or you didn't. That's all they care about at the end of the day.

You can request disclosure and go from there. That's the best advice you're going to get at this stage.


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:23 pm

bend wrote:There's no secret to making tickets just disappear.

There's two points in your post that get confusing. You say the light turned red before you crossed the line but yet you argue with the officer the light was yellow? I'm not sure I follow the reasoning there.

Amber doesn't mean "speed up and beat the light". Even had managed to race and beat the red light, you can still be ticketed for disobeying an amber. You're not exactly accomplishing much when the argument is "I almost beat it".

If you're going down the path of "I tried to beat the red light but I ran through it in the interest of safety to avoid stopping in the intersection", don't even bother. It's a contradictory defense. Someone who is interested in making the safest maneuver isn't trying to beat amber lights.

Either way it's an absolute liability charge. Either you went through the red or you didn't. That's all they care about at the end of the day.

You can request disclosure and go from there. That's the best advice you're going to get at this stage.
Oh sorry shoulda been more specific.
Anyways, incase he doesn't have proper evidence, i said "It was yellow" because i didn't want to give him a confession that it was red. Also I was hoping he would think i actually ran a yellow and not give me a ticket.

It didn't work out and i still got a ticket so now I have to deal with it.
But, yeah I'd like all the possible options that I could do to possibly get this ticket removed because I'm really worried about my insurance now. I'm a young driver and insurance will rape me.

But yes, i do believe the light i ran was red.

I was thinking about getting a lawyer but I don't know whose good when it comes to tickets like this.


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by: argyll on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:14 am

There's no point going to trial because the officer will testify you went through on red (or else he wouldn't have issued the ticket and you can't testify or else you have to say the same thing or purjure yourself.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:48 am

argyll wrote:There's no point going to trial because the officer will testify you went through on red (or else he wouldn't have issued the ticket and you can't testify or else you have to say the same thing or purjure yourself.
Yes but what about the possibility he doesn't show up to court?
Also even if he does show up to court, can't I adjourn it to another court date and try my luck again?


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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:56 am

Also lets say he does show up to court and i do end up getting convicted of the ticket, is there anything i can do to avoid this making my insurance spike up.
Since a ticket last's on your record for 3-years, I was thinking about cancelling the insurance policy for 3 years, until the ticket no longer exists and then getting insurance back after. This will keep my insurance clean, won't it?


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by: FastNAwesome on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:39 am

I'm not an expert, but this is what i would do.

On the day of court, you usually get an opportunity to speak with the prosecutor before session starts, so make sure you arrive early.
Speak, to the prosecutor and plead your case. eg) first timer, concerned about insurance, young driver, etc ....
You will get a sense from the prosecutor what their stance is. And if he/she has mercy on you, they may reduce the charge down to a zero demerit offence.
Which "should" not impact your insurance.

If they play hard ball, then you can adjourn it to give you an opportunity to get legal representation.


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:04 am

FastNAwesome wrote:I'm not an expert, but this is what i would do.

On the day of court, you usually get an opportunity to speak with the prosecutor before session starts, so make sure you arrive early.
Speak, to the prosecutor and plead your case. eg) first timer, concerned about insurance, young driver, etc ....
You will get a sense from the prosecutor what their stance is. And if he/she has mercy on you, they may reduce the charge down to a zero demerit offence.
Which "should" not impact your insurance.

If they play hard ball, then you can adjourn it to give you an opportunity to get legal representation.
Oh okay! Thanks for your input! Appreciate it a lot.
How will i be able to adjourn though if i speak with the prosecutor early, won't they know I'm at court and i was able to attend then. Usually they don't let you adjourn for no reason?

I'm really paranoid, i have an exam tomorrow too but can't even study now because of this :(


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by: FastNAwesome on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:26 am

After you speak with the prosecutor, don't leave.
Enter court with everyone else.
When they call your name, you go up and you will deal with whatever transpired with the prosecutor.
If you end up adjourning it, the judge will ask you why and you just say you need some time to get legal representation.
If this is your first court date, they will not deny the adjournment. And a date will be chosen while you are standing there.


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:40 am

FastNAwesome wrote:After you speak with the prosecutor, don't leave.
Enter court with everyone else.
When they call your name, you go up and you will deal with whatever transpired with the prosecutor.
If you end up adjourning it, the judge will ask you why and you just say you need some time to get legal representation.
If this is your first court date, they will not deny the adjournment. And a date will be chosen while you are standing there.
Oh okay, i heard even when tickets are 0 demerit points it still effects insurance the same. I heard insurance companies don't look at demerit points, they look at the offence.
Also is there a possibility in getting community service or anything to get the ticket removed?


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by: argyll on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:43 am

Insurance companies don't care about demerit points. A ticket is a ticket (unless it is a very serious one in which case they treat it worse).

Yes you could simply not have insurance (and not drive !) until the ticket drops off but you're also losing your no claims discount.

The chances of the officer not turning up are very slim these days. You can try it but it is very unlikely.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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by: argyll on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:45 am

If this is your first ticket then the insurance hit shouldn't be too extreme. Another one would be significant however.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:11 am

argyll wrote:If this is your first ticket then the insurance hit shouldn't be too extreme. Another one would be significant however.
Yes but the thing is I don't even drive much.
I'm 21 years old currently, turning 22 this year.

The whole reason my dad is paying for my insurance is because he wants it so by the time i turn 25, i get a cheap insurance. This isn't going to happen now if this ticket stays on my record because I won't have 5 years of clean driving history. That's why I'm kind of nervous.

Also what paralegals do you guys recommend.

I heard wewinitoritsfree.com are good? Do you guys know anything about them?
So far the options I have are, Wewinitoritsfree.com, OTTLegal, Redline?
Any suggestions?


t3ch9
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by: t3ch9 on
Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:48 am

Also i have another question, how does a ticket's effect on insurance rates work. I'll use this example someone used to explain to me to ask the question.

So someone on this forum previously explained to me that:
Let's say you get a 10% discount when you turn 25 and let's assume your insurance currently costs : $2000.

At 25, you would get the 10% discount (which equals $200 off) and would end up paying $1,800 (i.e. $2000-$200)

However, if you had claims or convictions within the last 5 years, your insurer might say your base premium is now $2500.
At 25, you might still qualify for the 10% discount (which equals $250 (i.e. 10% of $2500)), so now you would end up paying $2,250 (that is, $2500-$250).

So, while you WOULD have paid $1,800 if you had a clean record, you end up paying $2,250 because your base premium was higher.

So i was wondering, let's say I do get convicted of this offence and my base premium goes up to $2500. Then by the time i turn 25, the ticket is off my record. Would I still get the original discounted rate of $1,800/year even though I did get a ticket.


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