Moore St near Bayview (HTA 182 (2)) A couple of questions...

bpassand
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Moore St near Bayview (HTA 182 (2)) A couple of questions...

by: bpassand on
Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:00 pm

Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses excepted)...that I just did not see.
Was charged with: 182 (2) - Disobey Sign.

Questions:
1. What's the difference between 182 (2) and 144 (9)? To me, 144 (9) would seem a more appropriate charge...

2. I am planning on choosing option 3 (trial). I have heard that it is good to ask for "disclosure". When and how do I request this?

3. If I speak to a prosecutor before hand, what is the likelyhood that they will lower it to a charge that won't go on my driving record (e.g., like a municipal by-law)? I'm not overly concerned about the fine or demerit points...just the record. Any suggestion on what to ask for??

4. If I don't like the prosecutor's offer, I will fight it. Any suggestions based on my circumstance? I have the receipt from the surgery to prove where I was going (that this isn't my daily route)...my record is/was clean...there were two signs posted across the street at the 4-way stop. Not overly obvious especially when you are checking for other cars and are somewhat lost. Moreover, it wasn't "dangerous", nor was I holding anyone up (since every car had to stop). I can only guess that sign is there to keep that particular street clear from cars in rush hour.

I appreciate you help...thanks.


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by: hwybear on
Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:21 pm

bpassand wrote:To me, 144 (9) would seem a more appropriate charge...
that section is for intersections controlled by a traffic control signal (traffic lights)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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racer
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by: racer on
Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:23 pm

Take some pictures, refer to guidelines: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1765.html

You want to show that the tree is obstructing the view of the sign. It is the responsibility of the city to make sure that the signs are visible.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
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diggyj
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by: diggyj on
Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:13 am

Your best bet would be to go to first attendance, they will probably knock it down to zero points and a lesser fine.

DJ


bpassand
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by: bpassand on
Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:18 am

Probably a simple question, but what is "first attendance"? Is that the actual trial date, or should I set up a meeting with the prosecutor ahead of time?

Thanks


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by: OTTLegal on
Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:11 am

If you go to first attendance they might take of the demerit points but the ticket will still go on your driving record for 3 years. Best to set a trial date.

The disclosure is going to tell you that there is a a sign there, and your vehicle disobeyed it....
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal


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racer
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by: racer on
Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:35 pm

First attendance is meeting with the prosecutor. He/she can offer you a lower charge. It is NOT a trial date, it is before the trial though, and you have a few dates during which you can go to see him/her. Basically you are agreeing to plead guilty without a fight and the prosecutor cuts you a deal in terms of penalty/actual charge you are agreeing to admit. You will receive a few (as in a score) of FA meeting dates in your court documents for the trial date.
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viper1
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by: viper1 on
Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:45 am

each early attendance is different.

They dropped it right there after I spoke to them.

I think you should never take there first offer.

It looks scary but nothing to it.

Cheers
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bpassand
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by: bpassand on
Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:16 pm

viper1 wrote:each early attendance is different.

They dropped it right there after I spoke to them.

I think you should never take there first offer.

It looks scary but nothing to it.

Cheers
Viper1
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I'm still kind of confused. When I get my court date in the mail, the documents provided will include multiple "early attendace dates"? If I go on one of those dates and don't like the offer, can I refuse it? Do I then have the option of going to another early attendance date or would I need to go to court at that point?


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