Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

REc'd disclosure 1 day before meeting, offered 15 over
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:19 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:37 pm
Posts: 1
I was charged with 116 km/h in 80 km/h zone. Late at night on an empty highway, there were two officers in the patrol car, they were far ahead of me, pulled off to the shoulder and pulled me over after I passed them. I received my disclosure this morning, with a resolution meeting scheduled for tomorrow. I was literally about to call the prosecutor and ask for a new meeting date when she emailed me the disclosure. I replied with a request for a new meeting date so I could go over the notes. Her reply was very interesting:
"No. There's plenty of time to read your notes, there's literally 26 lines of notes from Officer Gxxxx and a test time of the device from Officer Pxxxx.

I can advise that I'm prepared to offer to reduce your charge to 95 km/h in an 80 km/h zone. That brings you down from a 4-demerit point offence, to 0-demerit points, and the fine is a total of $60.00.

If this is not agreeable, your matter will proceed to trial and you'll get a trial notice in the mail with a new date.

If this is agreeable, you're required to attend court tomorrow afternoon at 1:30 p.m."

I was rather surprised to get the offer of 15 over 0 points, and am wondering if I got this offer because there is a fatal error or other grounds for acquittal/withdrawl. My first instinct is to take that offer and run with it. However, I had a really bad week in late May, and am facing another charge of 111 in an 80, in a nearby jurisdiction. So if there is a change for a total withdrawl/acquittal it maybe in my interest to see if I can get this one eliminated. I am attaching the notes. I am wondering if the statement in the first notes (officer G) that "observe veh coming from rear at high rate of speed, pass side mirror" was insufficient grounds to target my vehicle, given he was looking at distant headlights in a mirror, with an indirect view of the speedometer in the cruiser. Or if it should have been the officer driving making this note.
Bottom line is I am not sure if they are offering me the 0 points $60 fine because they don't want to haul 2 officers into court, or because they know they have a bad ticket on their hands. Any timely feedback would be helpful as I need to make a decision by tomorrow.


Attachments:
ptbo disc2.png
ptbo disc2.png [ 166.98 KiB | Viewed 575 times ]
ptbo disclosure 1.png
ptbo disclosure 1.png [ 115.08 KiB | Viewed 575 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Re: REc'd disclosure 1 day before meeting, offered 15 over
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:03 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Unless you've got a way to defend yourself, I would just take the deal. The disclosure seems fine and there is nothing glaring that presents any defence for you.

As for why they offered you a good deal, likely its because you didn't get any roadside reduction and have little or no record. Had you gotten a roadside reduction, I think you'd be SOL.

At this point in the game, they are not worried about the officer availability because the trial will only be scheduled when both officers WILL be available. In any event, on trial dates, many jurisdictions now simply have the officers get radioed in to court after the prosecutor meets with the accused to determine whether a trial is actually going to proceed or not. That way, it avoids having a bunch of officers just sitting in court for no reason. After all, sometimes defendants don't show up, or they are seeking an adjournment, etc. This way, they just call the officer in a few minutes before the trial starts. It reduces their costs significantly and speeds things up in court. It also reduces the gamble some individuals take thinking they'll only make their decision if they see the officer in court. This way, it forces them to take a position at the start of the day or wait the rest of the day till their trial matter gets called up.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: REc'd disclosure 1 day before meeting, offered 15 over
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:39 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
1 to 15km/h over is 0 demerit points but is still a minor offence and can affect your insurance.
16 to 30km/h over is 3 demerit points and is also a minor offence and can affect your insurance.
You were charged with 36km/h over which is 4 demerit points and consider a MAJOR offence by insurance.

The demerit points are not really the issue unless you have demerits on your record already and you are pushing the 9 to 15 demerit point range.

Insurance IS the issue. So accepting 15 over can still affect your insurance, however it is only considered a minor offence as compared to 36 over which could have a much greater impact on your insurance rates.

The officers don't need any grounds really to "target" you. However a good lawyer/paralegal would definitely drill the officer in cross examination about this observation (from the rear at NIGHT in the passenger mirror) but on it's own it is probably not enough to win. Also I think (although hard to read) there are two test times in the first officers notes... they must test before and after for charge to be valid. There is case law if there is only one test time so you should clarify this for sure.

You have three options as far as I see it:
1 - If you can find a really good paralegal/lawyer that thinks they can win AND is willing to explain all the reasons why they think they can win, then you might consider taking it to court.
2 - You could try and fight it yourself in court, however if you do not have any experience in court there is good chance you will lose. The best way to get experience in court is to just go and do it, but in this case you get a MAJOR offence if you lose versus a minor one if you settle.
3 - Take the plea offer and try and get out of the other ticket instead.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: REc'd disclosure 1 day before meeting, offered 15 over
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:01 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
jsherk wrote:
You were charged with 36km/h over which is 4 demerit points and consider a MAJOR offence by insurance.

That's not necessarily true. The OP would need to check with their provider to determine what the threshold is. Most providers seem to follow facility insurance guidelines which set the threshold for a major offence at 50 km/hr or more.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: REc'd disclosure 1 day before meeting, offered 15 over
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:15 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
Okay thanks for clarifying.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Rec'd Disclosure - Do I have a Case? Looking for advice.

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

Gweedz

21

1482

Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:37 pm

FiReSTaRT View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Disclosure, adjournment,....no plea bargain offered

Bus320

2

1196

Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:35 pm

Bus320 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Surprise! rec'd red light ticket in Hamilton

ConfusedinHamilton

1

2489

Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:57 am

ConfusedinHamilton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Is traffic school offered in Ontario?

apparently_speeding

4

1872

Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:19 am

Bookm View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. shall I go to trial or make a deal if offered ?

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

gar

27

1874

Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:13 am

gar View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Offered S.144(10)- Disobey lane light. Confused as to why

CC4893

4

302

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:28 pm

Cathywutoronto View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Trial vs. Early meeting

yanna

6

5969

Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:38 pm

Solan View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Missed meeting with prosecutor

shawt1

1

734

Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:08 pm

OPS Copper View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. meeting with JP tomorrow - not sure what to expect or say?

cizzar

1

788

Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:53 pm

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. First Resolution Meeting - experience

bobajob

2

6968

Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:21 pm

bobajob View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Procedure for meeting with the crown attorney

teepee24

1

760

Mon May 16, 2011 11:40 pm

Simon Borys View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Missed Early Prosecution meeting

m2kk

9

6381

Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:17 pm

aasghar View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.