Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Speedtaxed
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Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

Can I use my 7 year old daughter to testify as a witness? I was driving with my mother-in-law from Spain and soon to be 5 year old son to his soccer game in AM. My mother-in-law will be back in Spain when the trial starts.


I approached officer from behind while she was driving. Turned left with her going East facing glaring sun. When I passed she pulled me over. Officer approached car and exclaimed "oh now you are wearing seatbelt" when she peered in and to my mother-in-law who doesn't speak English "where is your seatbelt?". I was charged but mother-in-law wasn't after I told officer she took her seatbelt off when I pulled over into parking lot. If officer didn't even know I had seatbelt on or my mother-in-law didn't until she looked into driver side window how was it she could be certain while driving looking into rearview mirror contending against a strong glare off my windshield?

My last speeding trial I won on appeal. However I should have won the initial trial and transcripts cost a fortune.

I think I can win without my daughter but a second witness is devastating to officer's case. However the second witness is a young daughter which the prosecutor will probably state I have undue influence over. I have never used a witness so I don't know what to do there either. My daughter actually went to the pre-appeal hearing of the appeal I won and wanted me to take her out of school for it which I gladly did. My daughter is a competitive fighter like me and I am not asking her to lie. Even if she doesn't testify I will probably take her again to show her how you have to fight for your rights and that cops for the most part are tax collecting parasites.

I will also take the stand and testify I was wearing my seatbelt. I took all kinds of video evidence and photos to show the sun's glare is so strong that you cant see the seatbelts on the passing drivers. Officer wasn't wearing sunglasses or glasses. I will be asking for vision records of officer along with a ton of other "stuff" to try for failure to disclose.


ShrekTek
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by ShrekTek »

There is no rule that prevents your daughter from testifying, so I would bring her along for sure.

Plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). You will need officers notes to understand what officer will say on the witness stand, which will be their case against you.

And yes appeals cost a fortune. I should have won last speeding ticket at trial, but did not. When I went to appeal, they wanted $1100.00 deposti for transripts, which I could not afford. If you have the money, you can get justice!
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

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Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

I think i will go early resolution. Once prosecutor attempts pathetic intimidation tactic I will tell him if officer steps into court and proceeds to lie about being able to see a person's seat belt while driving and looking into rear view mirror against the blazing sun that day I will attempt to end her career with internal affairs post trial and expose the obvious lie. I will tell him to look up my last win against van breda where I made him out to be an absolute fool and liar in court. I did them a favour by not ending his career afterwards. However this officer won't be as lucky as I won't stop until I get her career. Officers think their lies can't be exposed in court and what they claim will be regarded as absolute truth since they wear a blue uniform. Almost always an officer will lie to get a conviction which needs to be established beyond a reasonable doubt. That is true regardless of the innocence or guilt of the accused. However I think i can expose the lie she will have to make and this time around I will have no qualms with making an example out of her for other cops to see that day. That's how pissed I am after having to pay $400 in non-refundable transcripts the last time on appeal to get justice.


ShrekTek
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by ShrekTek »

You have pretty much no chance of ending officers career... officer will testify they saw you with no seatbealt and then you will cross examine and then you will testify... JP will make decision based on that and it will not affect officer in any way, even if the JP believes you over officer. Trying to intimidate the prosecutor will not acheive anything productive.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

ShrekTek


Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

Sure I do. It is very easy to recreate what the officer testifies to in court and prove it isn't possible to see what she claimed she could.

My wife has better than perfect vision and can't make it out. The officer absolutely can not see seat belts from a rear view mirror with sun shining going east in my car. My daughter is absolutely sure of me wearing a seat belt and the surprise of the officer when she looked into my car to see me wearing it when she thought she was going to see otherwise.

To then claim certainty which I will press her numerous times on in court after her surprise and the photos and the fact you simply can't see into my car with the sunlight the way it was has the potential to end her career. I will demand internal affairs to interview my daughter and investigate the impossibility of the officer's account of being able to see into my car from her rear view.


ShrekTek
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by ShrekTek »

I do think you have a good case and that you can definitely beat it, but my point was that although the JP may believe you and may not believe the officer, this will not bring any negative impact to the officer and will not end the officers career.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

ShrekTek


Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

Not very many people are willing to go to internal affairs to destroy an officer's career for lying on the stand. That in itself is a risk that shouldn't be taken lightly. Now you have an insistant child that knows she saw her dad put the seat belt on. She knows because I almost always have to fight my son to put his on which was particularly true that day. The officer will have to explain away her surprise when she saw me with a seat belt on when she thought she was going to see me without one and then how she could then still claim in court that unquestionably in her mind I wasn't wearing one. Then when she actually fails miserably recreation tests which I will insist on I will start demanding she be fired. I will make the biggest stink over a seat belt ticket a cop lied over that internal affairs has ever seen.


ShrekTek
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by ShrekTek »

In Ontario it is called the Office of the Independent Police Review Director (OIPRD) and I have made complaints about police offiers in the past and they have basically blown them off.

So yes feel free to make the complaint (and you definitely should), but don't be surprised when nothing comes of it.

Threats to the prosecution that you are going to make those complaints will most likely have no effect one way or the other. The prosecutor will simply look at the case and decide if they beleive there is a reasonable possibility of getting a conviction. Your comments to the prosecutor before the trial do not really hold much weight in their decision on whether to go to trial or not.

But I do hope you are able to get them to drop it without having to go to trial.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

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Nanuk
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Nanuk »

I have to shake my head and wonder if you're for real, or maybe better yet you can give your own head a shake.

1) Your going to put your 7 year old on the stand as a witness ? Really ... put a child up as a witness for a seatbelt ticket. Thats just silly why anyone would put a child through that.

2) If the photo and video evidence wasn't taken at the time of the offence to replicate the conditions at that time , its not likely you'll get that entered into evidence. I've seen it attempted multiple times.

3) Contact OIPRD if you have a complaint however its going to be difficult to prove the officer didn't see what she says she saw. No reason to wait for the outcome of court you can contact OIPRD anytime you wish it can even be done online.

Goodluck.


Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

What's so horrifying about getting my daughter to take the stand and tell everyone that she saw her dad put on his seatbelt? The prosecutor won't grill my 7 year old daughter or I will immediately object that the issue of me wearing a seat belt has been asked and answered and he is trying to intimidate the witness.

Look, in all probability the officer will be more scared than my daughter. She has to be sure of something she can't be sure of to get the prosecutor a conviction. She can't state she is anywhere close to being sure I wasn't wearing a seat belt only that she couldn't see it on me while trying to look into a rear view mirror and into the windshield of my car reflecting a very bright sun that day. She also didn't see it on me until she looked into the driver's seat and expressed with surprise that I had it on now. I can't see the seat belt on most drivers looking back into the sun via my rear view. Does that mean most drivers arent wearing seat belts or just that I can't see them through a reflecting windshield?

I will give her the option to back out of the perjurious lie she'll have to repeat by telling her I have a witness that is adamant that she saw me putting on a seat belt that day. I'll ask her if she thinks now, in hindsight, if she can still be so sure of her ability to see a seat belt through a car windshield reflecting bright sunlight or if there is now a strong possibility in her mind that I was wearing a seat belt she didn't see?

If she has any brains she'll back away and admit she isn't sure now that she has thought about. Otherwise everyone in the courtroom will know after I am done with her she is, at the very least, lying about her degree of confidence to net a conviction which is perjury.


Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

I still need an answer regarding when and how I have to inform the prosecution/court of my daughter being a witness.


ShrekTek
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by ShrekTek »

I personally have no issue with you putting your daughter on the stand, and I would do the same thing. You can just bring your daughter along on the trial date. You do not need to inform the prosecution prior to the trial date, although you can certainly send them a letter/fax if you want to.

Again though, even if the JP believes you over the officer, this is not proof the officer lied or perjured themselves. The officer will most likely state that they BELEIVE they saw you without a seatbealt, and as long as they beleive it, then they are not lying even if it is proven that they most likely could not have seen it.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

ShrekTek


Speedtaxed
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by Speedtaxed »

The officer can claim when she first saw me it looked as if I wasn't wearing a seat belt. I don't think I can nail her on initially believing that I wasn't wearing a seat belt based on not seeing it in spite of the terribly difficult visual against the sun. I can severely question her judgment for issuing a ticket under those circumstances though.

However the issue of her surprise later to see that I was wearing a seat belt is how I will turn the screws and go for gross incompetence or perjury, both of which means she shouldn't be an officer. If she thought I wasn't wearing a seat belt still as she approached my car but then later found out to her surprise I was wearing a seat belt then it meant she couldn't see the seatbelt until she was standing right next to my window. To then issue the ticket and still have the same level of confidence in her initial observation even when her eyes later contradicted her initial observation regarding her ability to see the seat belt is a wrongful charge she wrote me up on especially after I told her I was wearing one. She can't possibly believe in her initial observation after the events that unfolded later that contradicted it. So I will ask her if she STILL believes in her initial observation without any reasonable doubt or reservation now after her later surprise and the testimony of my daughter and myself. Answering yes indicates gross incompetence or perjury to get a conviction or both. Remember she was surprised at both me wearing a seat belt and my mother-in-law not. How could she not severely question what she thought she saw up to that point if she is a competent officer with integrity?


argyll
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Re: Failure to properly wear seat belt and witness question.

Unread post by argyll »

You are assuming she was surprised when she saw your seatbelt. I read it as a sarcastic "Oh NOW you're wearing your seatbelt". Believe it or not, lots of people aren't wearing a seatbelt when seen but miraculously are wearing one when they get pulled over.

But I'm one of those 'tax collecting parasites' apparently..........
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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