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167km/h, and perform race in an 80 zone.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:17 am 
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Hey, im new to this forum and I was hoping to get some advice. A friend and I were caught doing 167 in a 80 zone in April 2015 and were charged with sec.172, 87 km over the limit and performing a race. After reading many conversions on this forum over several months before my date on my summons, I decided to hire a paralegal to defend me. I didnt hear anything about it until yesterday when my para calls me and says he has struck a deal with the officer that pulled me over. After sitting down and talking to the OPP officer that pulled me over they agreed that we don't deserve to have the book thrown at us due to our cooperation and remorse we showed at the scene. The officer offered to give us a 1000$ fine under Sec 172 and no suspension. My paralegal says we should take it, as it is rare and very lucky to have been offered this considering the speed and the race aspect. He said if we want we can take it to trial but the officer seeming very competent and he says we will probably lose and face a 5000$ fine and 6 months licence suspension. So my first question is should i take it and not go to trial? Is he right about probably losing? And also as a 20 year old I want to know from people who know more about this than I do what the long term implications of a Stunt driving charge are on the next few years of my life. Thanks for any and all input!


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Re: 167km/h, and perform race in an 80 zone.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:34 am 
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If it's a choice between a conviction in court or the plea deal then obviously the plea deal looks good but something isn't right.

Section 172 reads:

"Racing, stunts, etc., prohibited
172. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.

Offence
(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,

(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or

(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

Therefore the fine cannot be $1000. You need to check whether the plea deal is in fact under Section 128 which is Speeding. If it is, then yes, that's a good deal.

In regards to the years ahead the amount of the fine is irrelevant. A conviction for stunt/race will have very serious implications for the cost of your insurance, that is if you can find someone who will insure you. A conviction for Speeding will have much less effect.

I presume you have received disclosure ?

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: 167km/h, and perform race in an 80 zone.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
There’s no way members of this forum can judge the strength of the case without seeing the evidence against you. Hopefully you did some research and hired a competent paralegal who carefully reviewed the evidence against you to assess the strength of the Crown’s case. If you have confidence in your paralegal, then it’s probably best to follow his advice. It sounds like you’re being offered a very good plea deal.

You may just want to double check what the actual plea deal is with your paralegal cause there’s a few details not adding up. First, it’s not up to the police to offer you a reduced fine, it’s up to the Crown. The officer may be willing to cut you a break, but that’s irrelevant in Court unless the Crown agrees. Second, as Argyll pointed out, the fine being offered is below the minimum. While Courts do sometimes hand out fines below the minimum, there’s no guarantee of it. The Crown could suggest a reduced fine, but the Justice of the Peace would still need to agree to it. I’ve personally never seen a Crown ask for a fine below the minimums prescribed by law.


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Re: 167km/h, and perform race in an 80 zone.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
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If your paralegal talked to the police officer then the deal means nothing. Double check that your paralegal talked with the Crown Prosecutor and not the officer because it is the crown prosecutor who can suggest a deal. But once you go to trial, the Justice of the Peace has to agree to the deal as well, and at 87 over I would highly doubt they will do that. I would also double check what the exact charge is that they will be asking you to plead to. Even if the crown and JP agree to a $1000 fine, a stunt racing charge is most likely going to cause your insurance to sky rocket for the next 3 years.

Unfortunately there are many paralegals that really do not want to even consider going to trial for you, and are only looking at getting several hundred dollars from you to ask the prosecutor for a deal that you could have gotten yourself. Ask the paralegal to go over your disclosure with you and show you why the prosecutor has a good case against you and why you probably can not win at trial.

In fact I would be getting a second opinion from another paralegal or lawyer asap.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: 167km/h, and perform race in an 80 zone.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 535
Location: Ontario
Getting affordable insurance at 20 with this on your record will be next to impossible. You might want to renew your policy for 1 year before pleading guilty to anything. Do you have a full G? If you have or plan to get a job where you need a good driving record then it is likely that it will not work out so well. I would suggest sitting down with your paralegal and have him go over the evidence they have against you in the disclosure and why he thinks you are going to lose and pleading down is going to be the best outcome.


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