Search found 10 matches
- Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:37 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Addendum: After the arraignment I went down to the prosecutors office and explained my situation to someone there (a clerk, possibly). He was also confused and called over a prosecutor who apparently knew more on the matter. That prosecutor said that oftentimes demerit points might appear on the abstract with no associated charge in cases like this, but he agreed that it rarely happens since it's up to the city to communicate these convictions to the MTO which they're often too busy to do. He also said that in some cases there is a generic "bylaw offence" listed on the record but he ...
- Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:52 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Went to court today, here's how it went down: - Came to court with a big envelope of photos and other evidence - Asked prosecutor for a plea to TMC. She declined. - During a recess the cop approached me and asked if I was sure to come to trial. I said yes and he asked if there's any way I'd plead guilty, to which I said only to a plea under the TMC. I told him the code 950-304. - Cop told me bylaw offences don't go on the driving record (at least, he said he's been a cop for 14 years and has never seen one) - Cop went to talk to the prosecutor, and then to one of the paralegals hanging around....
- Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:07 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
I was charged with "disobey sign: HTA 182(2)". I did quickly tell the prosecutor I'd plead guilty right away to any charge not under the HTA but she rejected that out of hand. Next week I'll try to be more specific and bring up the section of the TMC.
Thank you for the advice so far. I will update with the outcome next week.
Thank you for the advice so far. I will update with the outcome next week.
- Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:53 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Yes, I could also argue that, but I don't think I will unless I have to. It doesn't say the dash has to be there but the image itself forms part of the law, and typically, when a range of times is provided on official signs there's a dash to signify it, and when there is a list of times, there is no dash. I could argue that the sign could be interpreted in that way. If all else fails I could try to bring up the French Language Services Act to claim the sign is invalid, but I think that would be even weaker. I have the disclosure here. http://i.imgur.com/byjHWZt.jpg The only thing suspect in it...
- Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:04 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Well, specifically my argument is that either a) the sign is invalid since it lacks every element of a prohibited right turn sign Or b) if the sign is valid then it only prohibits turns at 4pm and 6pm, not between the two, as there is no dash which typically signifies a range of times on official signage. I'm also planning to argue that - im not familiar with the area as I'm only there for a summer job - I don't usually take that route home from work - I saw many other cars making the right turn and seeing that along with the sign lacking the dash made me assume that it was in fact legal to ma...
- Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:31 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Ok, my trial is in a week and I think I have a pretty decent defense, I'll post it a bit later but hopefully for now someone can help me confirm the following:
Can I argue that failing to obey a sign is strict liability in the case that the sign itself is misleading?
Can I argue that failing to obey a sign is strict liability in the case that the sign itself is misleading?
- Fri May 27, 2016 10:13 am
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Thank you everyone for your help and advice.
I went back to the intersection to take another look at the sign. I noticed that it was missing two components:
a "dash" between 4pm and 6pm was not present
and the "dash" between Mon - Fri was covered up by a bolt.
Could I use these facts to have the sign declared invalid?
Here is a google street view image of the sign in question.

And here is the link to the regulation on "prohibited right turns"

I went back to the intersection to take another look at the sign. I noticed that it was missing two components:
a "dash" between 4pm and 6pm was not present
and the "dash" between Mon - Fri was covered up by a bolt.
Could I use these facts to have the sign declared invalid?
Here is a google street view image of the sign in question.

And here is the link to the regulation on "prohibited right turns"

- Wed May 25, 2016 6:28 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
Do you think the fact that the sign is overwhelmingly unenforced could be used as a defence to get the ticket thrown out or at least reduced to a non-HTA offence? No! Being unenforced is completely irrelevent and won't help you at all. The prosecutor may offer you plea deal to some lesser charge, but usually it will still be an HTA offence that will still affect your insurance. Your best bet is to review the officers notes and then decide whether to just plead guilty and pay it, or to fight it. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pleading not guilty and requesting disclosure. I...
- Wed May 25, 2016 1:22 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Re: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
You might get a plea deal to some lesser charge, but it would still be some kind of traffic violation and still affect your insurance. I would plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer(s) present. Once you get your Notice of Trial with the trial date on it, you can then request disclosure (copy of notes of all officers involved). Once you get disclosure scan and post it here with personal info blocked out. You could also scan and post the ticket with personal info blocked out and we can check for fatal errors. Was there more than one officer involved (one watching for people makin...
- Wed May 25, 2016 12:06 pm
- Forum: Failing to obey signs
- Topic: Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
- Replies: 18
- Views: 10380
Disobey Sign: Illegal Right Turn
I work in a medical center whose parking lot is only accessible through a residential neighbourhood. This neighbourhood has a lot of restrictions on turns during rush hour, including a very convenient turn onto a main street between 4-6pm. Of course everyone who works there makes that turn constantly... It's just the most convenient way to get home. Rush hour traffic is pretty bad though so people usually only manage to make the turn when there's a break in it. Well I'm no exception and usually make that "illegal" right turn on the way home. Today after 2 years of working there, I fi...