Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.

Do police really have no way of verifying insurance, other than those pink pieces of paper insurance companies give us?

pinch wrote:

I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.

Do police really have no way of verifying insurance, other than those pink pieces of paper insurance companies give us?

Correct, no way of knowing if a vehicle is insured except for the pink insurance card. There is no "magic" 1-800 number to call to find out, nor is the MTO linked to insurance companies either, although that would be the most logical thing.

hwybear wrote:

that would be the most logical thing.

Precisely the reason why they do not do it...

I remember kids in high school counterfeiting those pink insurance slips. They were perfect copies, they even had the perforations along the edges. I thought it was rather ridiculous since I was convinced they could be verified in real time. Now I know that it's the system that's ridiculous. I mean, if you can't verify in real time, why ask for the info to start with?

Any demerit points for this offense?

pinch wrote:

Any demerit points for this offense?

I'm pretty sure there aren't any. But, click on the "Demerit points" link on the bottom of this page, and see if the subsection you were charged with ("Contrary to: HTA XX.(X)") is NOT on the list to make double-sure.

Sorry, no points!!

To collect points you need a moving violation.

Something like "pacman"

Where do I find out if it is legal for a police officer to ask for licence, insurance and ownership of a vehicle while in a parking lot?

I think they can ask for these on private property is the vehicle has plates on it. Once you can has plates, your are responsible for having a license, insurance, ownership.

But I don't think they can charge you with a moving violation in a private parking lot since the HTA does not apply.

I should add that when I was charged with not surrendering insurance, it wasn't under the highway traffic act. So if I was on a private lot, I still could have been charged.

Interesting, similar situation happen to me except my little pink slip was in my car and I couldn't find it at that time when the officer pulled me over. My little insurance slip holder only had the expired stubs and my none-expired one somehow got slipped in between my pile of cds. I did have another copy at home.

Is there any way to fight this?

Are officers suppose to give you a certain amount of time to produce your stub?

irietek wrote:

Is there any way to fight this?

Are officers suppose to give you a certain amount of time to produce your stub?

Must surrender a valid insurance card upon demand. And that is when asked to surrender, not after the officer goes back to cruiser and returns to the car.

There is no such thing as 24hrs to produce.....just an urban legend....or was that back in Bookm's days

When I was a nervous young'n, I got a ticket for failing to produce my insurance slip. Just as the copp'r pulled away, I FOUND IT! So I pulled out quickly, flashed my headlghts, and pulled HIM over, LMAO!! Let me tell you, he was NOT impressed, LOL. He didn't even put his window down. He just said, "Tell it to my lawyer".

I went to court and the officer wasn't there, so the charge was dropped.

hwybear wrote:

irietek wrote:

Is there any way to fight this?

Are officers suppose to give you a certain amount of time to produce your stub?

Must surrender a valid insurance card upon demand. And that is when asked to surrender, not after the officer goes back to cruiser and returns to the car.

There is no such thing as 24hrs to produce.....just an urban legend....or was that back in Bookm's days

If I went to the police station to produce my none-expired stub would they have the authority to tear up my ticket if they were in a good mood this morning? =)

LOL Bookm's story was quite funny hahah.

irietek wrote:

If I went to the police station to produce my none-expired stub would they have the authority to tear up my ticket if they were in a good mood this morning? =)

Sorry, the PON can not just be torn apart. Only a JP can now mark a PON withdrawn.

hwybear wrote:

irietek wrote:

If I went to the police station to produce my none-expired stub would they have the authority to tear up my ticket if they were in a good mood this morning? =)

Sorry, the PON can not just be torn apart. Only a JP can now mark a PON withdrawn.

Sorry for my noobness, what does the acronyms PON and JP stand for?

Also, when the officer pulled me over he said it was because when he punched in my license plate it matched a suspected driver who's license has been expired. Is this legit???? I thought if they punched in my license plate on their terminal it would tell them that information.

Sorry for my noobness, what does the acronyms PON and JP stand for?

Also, when the officer pulled me over he said it was because when he punched in my license plate it matched a suspected driver who's license has been expired. Is this legit???? I thought if they punched in my license plate on their terminal it would tell them that information.

PON=Provincial Offence Notice

JP=Justice of the Peace

Plate numbers do get reused but that one is fishy

Reflections wrote:

Sorry for my noobness, what does the acronyms PON and JP stand for?

Also, when the officer pulled me over he said it was because when he punched in my license plate it matched a suspected driver who's license has been expired. Is this legit???? I thought if they punched in my license plate on their terminal it would tell them that information.

PON=Provincial Offence Notice

JP=Justice of the Peace

Plate numbers do get reused but that one is fishy

oops I meant to say that he said my plate pulled up a profile who's Driver's License was expired.

Quite confusing!

I was pulled over around 3:00 am this morning, if this was a tactic to pull someone over because they were on the road at 3:00 AM to see if they were drunk or DUI then I feel pretty violated!

Officers can pull you over just to check and see if you have all the required documentation, I don't know why they don't just say that. Back in my youthful days I had an officer pull me over in a "Mobile RIDE" check..... whatever.....blah, blah. He was OK just saying hello, nudge, nudge.

Reflections wrote:

...Back in my youthful days I had an officer pull me over in a "Mobile RIDE" check..... whatever.....blah, blah. He was OK just saying hello, nudge, nudge.

Ya know... this wouldn't happen if you'd keep it in your own lane!

hwybear wrote:

Must surrender a valid insurance card upon demand. And that is when asked to surrender, not after the officer goes back to cruiser and returns to the car.

The officer that wrote me up came back from his cruiser with tickets in hand, then asked me if I had found my insurance before he handed me the tickets. So he actually was providing me a chance.... and all this time I thought he was a hard nose. Too bad I already paid the ticket for failure to surrender - I could have used it as leverage with the prosecutor against the offense he pulled me over for to begin with. I wish I had started reading this forum earlier. Oh well, live and learn.

hwybear

The officer was able to determine I was insured without having ANY physical identification.

TridentX2 wrote:

hwybear

The officer was able to determine I was insured without having ANY physical identification.

sorry....I don't understand what you just wrote.

My apologies.

"Correct, no way of knowing if a vehicle is insured except for the pink insurance card. There is no "magic" 1-800 number to call to find out, nor is the MTO linked to insurance companies either, although that would be the most logical thing."

In regards to my offense, I did not provide the officer anything but my name and address.

He was able to confirm I was insured and licensed without any physical identification.

TridentX2 wrote:

My apologies.

"Correct, no way of knowing if a vehicle is insured except for the pink insurance card. There is no "magic" 1-800 number to call to find out, nor is the MTO linked to insurance companies either, although that would be the most logical thing."

In regards to my offense, I did not provide the officer anything but my name and address.

He was able to confirm I was insured and licensed without any physical identification.

Whether it is confirmed or not, still can be an offence for: fail to surrender insurance card and/or fail to surrender licence