Even More S. 172 Comedy Gold

Moderators: Radar Identified, Reflections, admin, hwybear, Decatur, bend

Greatest Canadian
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:56 pm

Even More S. 172 Comedy Gold

by: Greatest Canadian on

Under HTA s. 172(5), only a police officer can lay a s. 172 charge.

Police to require surrender of licence, detention of vehicle

(5) Where a police officer believes on reasonable and probable grounds that a person is driving, or has driven, a motor vehicle on a highway in contravention of subsection (1), the officer shall,

(a) request that the person surrender his or her drivers licence; and

(b) detain the motor vehicle that was being driven by the person until it is impounded under clause (7) (b).

As a result of the language, this prevents and excludes a private citizen from laying a s. 172 charge.

However HTA s. 217(2) articulates that s. 172 is an arrestable offence and s. 217(3) allows a private citizen to arrest anyone on view committing a s. 172 offence.

Arrests without warrant

(2) Any police officer who, on reasonable and probable grounds, believes that a contravention of any of the provisions of subsection 9 (1), subsection 12 (1), subsection 13 (1), subsection 33 (3), subsection 47 (5), (6), (7) or (8), section 51, 53, subsection 106 (8.2), section 130, 172 or 184, subsection 185 (3), clause 200 (1) (a) or subsection 216 (1) has been committed, may arrest, without warrant, the person he or she believes committed the contravention. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 217 (2); 1993, c. 40, s. 8; 2009, c. 5, s. 55.

Arresting on view

(3) Every person may arrest without warrant any person whom he or she finds committing any such contravention.

You can only arrest someone if you're charging them with an offence, so how can the government allow a private citizen to arrest anyone found committing a s. 172 offence when s. 172 only statutorily allows a police officer to lay the charge?

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... 0h08_e.htm
Last edited by Greatest Canadian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Greatest Canadian
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:56 pm

by: Greatest Canadian on

More major problems for poor old s. 172.

The NATIONAL CAPITAL ACT (NCA) and it's Regulations are subject to the HTA and HTA Regulations. Well sort of.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/c ... -1044.html

If you get caught speeding on the property of the National Capital Commission, under the NCA regulations you are subject to the HTA unless the HTA and it's regulations conflict with the NCA Regulations.

Compliance with Provincial and Municipal Laws

4. (1) No person shall operate a vehicle, or cause or permit a vehicle that he has the right to control to be operated, on a driveway otherwise than in accordance with the laws of the province and municipality in which the driveway is situated.

(2) No person shall park a vehicle on a driveway except in compliance with the laws of the province and municipality in which the driveway is situated.

(3) In this section, the expression "laws of the province and municipality" does not include laws that are inconsistent with or repugnant to any of the provisions of these Regulations

Traffic Control, Parking and Speed Limit

5. (1) No person shall operate a vehicle on a driveway at a rate of speed, in kilometres per hour, that is greater than the speed posted.

(2) Where no rate of speed is posted on a driveway, no person shall operate a vehicle on that driveway at a rate of speed greater than 60 kilometres per hour.

"driveway" means that part of the property of the Commission designed and intended for the use of vehicles;

If you get caught stunt driving by doing over 50kph over the posted NCA speed limit you are subject to HTA regualtion 339 (Demerit Point System) and you will be issued 6 points upon conviction.

This does not conflict with the NCA regulation.

However, despite being charged with stunt driving, and despite all the crazy penalities under HTA s. 172, including a $2,000 to $10,000 fine, licence suspension, vehicle impoundment, and possible arrest; under the NCA Regulation, you can only be fined $500 because the HTA s. 172 penalties conflict with the NCA regulation penalty and the NCA regulation governs.



[SOR/95-445, s. 2]

40. Every person who contravenes a provision of these Regulations is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both

Your vehicle cannot be impounded, your licence cannot be suspended, you cannot be arrested, and you cannot serve 6 months in the crowbar hotel because even under the NCA regulation, speeding is speeding, and speeding is an absolute liability offence which cannot bear a term of imprisonment upon conviction.

So, if you're just urchin' to do some 50 kph over stunt driving, head on up to the National Capital.

However, bear in mind, if the NCA regulation penalty is declared unconstitutional because a term of imprisonment is attached to the NCA penalty for speeding, then it is of no force and effect and you will be facing the penalties under s. 172.


Return to “General Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests