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182(2) for "no right turn on red" ? is by-Law needed? HELP
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:32 pm
Posts: 2
Hi everyone.
I'm new on this site but have been reading many posts from all of you and found it very helpful.

Please give me some insights of what I should do at this point :

September 1 2013 : charged with disobey sign 182(2) for turning right at "no-right-turn-on-red sign" @ Argentia / Winston Churchill

1st trail set for : April 25 2014 ( 7.5 months from the offense date)

1st disclosure requested 7.5 weeks before trial. ( requested in mid February)
I was asking for: His notes typed, his original notes, By-Law of the sign .
Disclosure received one week after request ! ( I thought that was very quick!)

Disclosure only have two pages of officer's hand-written notes and one page said that he had been policing for 10 years and his division number.
I can only read 70% of his notes. The rest are all abbreviations.
He wrote down the serial number and the make and model of my car but got the model wrong.
He described that the sign was 4 feet high and that the sign only have traffic light picture with no words on it. The weather was sunny.
No By-Laws or Typed note was given in the disclosure.


Now its only 4 weeks until the trail starts.
I need some advice of how to defend myself.
Can I still file the second disclosure requesting the by-law and typed notes?
Or can I wait until the trail and get an adjournment base on insufficient disclosure?
What is my defense in trail if they don't give me an adjournment?
is 182(2) a correct charge?
Can I use the bilingual defense?
What Municipal by-law can I plead down to that will not go into MTO driving record?

Please help me map out the strategies and some of the possibilities.
Thanks guys

here is the intersection:
I was in the same position as the white car turning right.
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Argentia+ ... vGHNJlqLxg


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Re: 182(2) for "no right turn on red" ? is by-Law needed? HE
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
You have to exercise due diligence with your disclosure requests; it's in your best interest to request again for explanations for the short-form writing.

Forget the bilingual argument, Court of Appeals rejected the R. v. Myers decision.

The crown is not obligated to disclose the city by-law; you can get the by-law through the city: http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/cityhall/bylaws

Once you get the by-law from city, you can ask the prosecutor if you can plead down to it. It won't increase your insurance permiums, but two demerit points may be applied to your driver's license because the by-law you want is associated with a prohibited turn. https://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/ ... 0339_e.htm


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Re: 182(2) for "no right turn on red" ? is by-Law needed? HE
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:32 pm
Posts: 2
How is insurance premium not increase when there are two demerit points?

How long is the demerit points stay on your record?

Do you know any specific municipal by-law I can plead down to that is less costly?

Thanks quick respond iFly55!


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Re: 182(2) for "no right turn on red" ? is by-Law needed? HE
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
Insurance companies can only increase your premiums based on HTA, CAIA & Criminal Code convictions. They can not increase your rates for by-law infractions, it most likely won't even show on your abstract; this again stresses the message that they don't care about demerit points whatsoever.

Points will stay on your record for two years from the date of the alleged offence; so if you're convicted in court two years later... you won't have any points. Points are a novice class driver's problem, where they're limited to four prior to an automatic 30-day suspension. If you're fully graduated, then 2 points against a 15 point buffer is nothing.

You can only plead to relevant by-laws, in this case you can ask for the by-law that supports the signs you disobeyed. The fine might be somewhere in the neighbourhood of $20, so it's considerably cheaper than the $110 HTA fine.


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