Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

Hello,

I plan to request disclosure through registered mail or fax. I've tried requesting in person but got rejected because they told me I did not provide sufficient information on my Disclosure Request letter.

My question is, do they really need the officer's name and division when I provided them with the Offence Number, Offence Date, Charge, Court Date, and Location? Also they said they do not mail out disclosure so I need to leave a phone number. Do I need to leave my phone number or can I ask that they contact me through mail/fax?

Last question, is it better to fax or send registered mail? or does it not really make a difference?

Thanks!

The main purpose of fax/registered mail is that there is a trail. This aleiviates the I said/ you Said finger pointing.

One of our members has a website, http://www.ticketcombat.com and it contains an example of a disclosure letter.

I have read the ticketcombat site and already went to request disclosure in person. I was turned away because they told me I had insufficient information on my request letter (I used the disclosure request form on the ticketcombat site). They said I needed to add the officer's ID, division, and leave my phone number as they do not mail out disclosure.

I've read the ticketcombat website and it advises me to not leave a phone number so there is a "trail". Also, I included the offence number in my disclosure request which I believe should be enough information to get the officer's ID, and division.

I was just wondering if there is anyway around leaving a phone number? I would really like everything to be written on paper. Is it possible to leave out my phone number and specifically request a response by mail?

where are you requesting?? Barrie, Mississauga?

gt0ro wrote:

I have read the ticketcombat site and already went to request disclosure in person. I was turned away because they told me I had insufficient information on my request letter (I used the disclosure request form on the ticketcombat site). They said I needed to add the officer's ID, division, and leave my phone number as they do not mail out disclosure.

I've read the ticketcombat website and it advises me to not leave a phone number so there is a "trail". Also, I included the offence number in my disclosure request which I believe should be enough information to get the officer's ID, and division.

I was just wondering if there is anyway around leaving a phone number? I would really like everything to be written on paper. Is it possible to leave out my phone number and specifically request a response by mail?

I've sorry but this is absolute BS from the Crown. The defendant only has to say "Give me disclosure" and provide their name and offence number at a minimum. If they know who you are and they are prosecuting YOU, it doesn't matter who the officer is, where he works or what high school he went to! If they don't know who their witness is, you shouldn't be telling them. Why would you help them convict you??? Ask the clerk for their name and leave the disclosure request at the clerk's desk. Say they can respond or not, it doesn't matter, you will certainly take it up with the justice at trial. (Giving them the finger is optional!)

As for their demand for a phone number, like I said, giving them the finger is optional!

ticketcombat wrote:

(Giving them the finger is optional!)

gt0ro, did you happen to get the clerk's name? You could also try registered mail but I don't see any difference here between that and what ticketcombat suggested. If they continue to insist on additional details from you, well, that's not your problem and it's setting you up for an easy win. The Justice of the Peace will gladly quash the proceedings on improper disclosure. Actually speaking of that... couple of months ago I watched a trial in Scarborough get stayed for exactly these same circumstances! The JP was livid. It might be a new "intimidation" tactic the Crown is trying. That said, I can't believe that with so many informed people out there, the Crown office would try that kind of a stunt. Unreal.

gt0ro wrote:

Hello,... Do I need to leave my phone number or can I ask that they contact me through mail/fax?

Thanks!

Definitely do not give them your fax number.

Thank you so much for clarifying this matter! I will send in registered mail!

I think it's always better to fax (with confirmation) or mail (registered) than to go in person to request disclosure. You don't have to deals with any BS from the clerks. No difference between fax or regmail, just make sure you have evidence. You'll save a few bucks if you fax though.

Make the prosecution work. They can look up the officer's details. You just need to ask for disclosure, period. Just include the minimum amount of information (Offence Number, Offence Date, Charge, Court Date, and Location) and never leave your phone number. Make them write a letter and mail it to you.

Make sure you request a detailed disclosure for all relevant information on your case. You need to be specific.

Good luck!

Just like the movie, Neo is everywhere...................

I haven't gotten any response yet and it's past my diary date. I'm planning on sending in another disclosure request.

Is there anything different I have to add from my first request? ie. telling them i haven't received anything or any response from my first request. this is my second request...

thanks!

gt0ro wrote:

I haven't gotten any response yet and it's past my diary date. I'm planning on sending in another disclosure request.

Is there anything different I have to add from my first request? ie. telling them i haven't received anything or any response from my first request. this is my second request...

thanks!

Nope, two "recordable" request is plenty..... then you can argue improper disclosure....

Why not give them a time limit and say you will be down in person to pick it up on a specific date !

Or ask how long it takes ...if they say 5 days... then say you will be down on that date five days from now !

Or give them a time limit (in writing by recorded mail) slightly in excess of the time they say they need to get disclosure ready. If not ready for you by that time or they havent replied explaining delay....explain in the letter that you will assume your request is not being honoured !!!

CoolChick wrote:

Why not give them a time limit and say you will be down in person to pick it up on a specific date !

Or ask how long it takes ...if they say 5 days... then say you will be down on that date five days from now !

Or give them a time limit (in writing by recorded mail) slightly in excess of the time they say they need to get disclosure ready. If not ready for you by that time or they havent replied explaining delay....explain in the letter that you will assume your request is not being honoured !!!

Unfortunately you can't push them like that. The Crown runs the show in Canada, not the JP. Let the Crown take their time.....

OK but according to our rights....we have the right to a fair and speedy trial.... if they delay the disclosure indefinitely wouldn't that compromise our right ?

You have a right to a speedy and fair trial, but disclosure is a bit of a different animal. In short, yes, if they don't give you proper disclosure, the proceedings can be stopped. The Crown must get the disclosure package ready for you in a reasonable amount of time before the trial, if you've requested one. If they don't, you can file a motion to "stay" the proceedings. On the day of trial, the Justice of the Peace will review the motion, look at when the disclosure request was made, what the Crown did to comply, what is missing and how it would affect the outcome. After that, he or she will decide if the proceedings must be quashed or can continue, or if something like an adjournment would be appropriate.

To get the proceedings stayed, you have to show that the Crown failed in their duty to disclose, and it wasn't just a simple error or omission. A simple error or missing document can be fixed by an adjournment - gives the Crown time to get the info to you. (At least, this is what I've seen from having observed POA trials.)

Thanks Radar.... I am digesting all the info...

Two recordable request is good?

I've only sent in one by registered mail. So I guess I'll send in a second letter.

btw, I didn't request anything in my first attempt... i was at the office of the prosecuter but was turned away.

Reflections wrote:

gt0ro wrote:

I haven't gotten any response yet and it's past my diary date. I'm planning on sending in another disclosure request.

Is there anything different I have to add from my first request? ie. telling them i haven't received anything or any response from my first request. this is my second request...

thanks!

Nope, two "recordable" request is plenty..... then you can argue improper disclosure....

gt0ro wrote:

Two recordable request is good?

I've only sent in one by registered mail. So I guess I'll send in a second letter.

btw, I didn't request anything in my first attempt... i was at the office of the prosecuter but was turned away.

Reflections wrote:

gt0ro wrote:

I haven't gotten any response yet and it's past my diary date. I'm planning on sending in another disclosure request.

Is there anything different I have to add from my first request? ie. telling them i haven't received anything or any response from my first request. this is my second request...

thanks!

Nope, two "recordable" request is plenty..... then you can argue improper disclosure....

Two recordable, fax or registered mail. Showing up and asking doesn't count.

Try using a Notary. A notary is considered like a judge in that what they sign is unquestionable PROOF. If they do not respond to a notarised demand then send a notice (again notarised) that recognises their failure to respond.... this keeps a proven paper trail that cannot be refuted. It will serve as proof that your requests were not honoured...and that they are in dishonour. Remember to give them a time frame in which to respond in the first request...once time has elapsed give the notice noticing their non response. you could go even further but obviously at this point you may get what you need and may not need to go any further.

I just went to the courthouse in Orangeville and presented the request for disclosure to the clerk. I was told I had to use their form and send the request to another address which is the prosecutors office. I am planning on mailing it, but should I send it to the court, or the prosecutors office ?

dave, I recommend that you NOT use their form. It usually does not allow you to ask for what you really want and need. They cannot force you to use their form.

Disclosure requests are usually sent to prosecution (not court) as they are responsible for the disclosure. Ticketcombat.ca has a good example of a disclosure request letter (edit for your specific case).

CoolChick wrote:

Try using a Notary. A notary is considered like a judge in that what they sign is unquestionable PROOF. If they do not respond to a notarised demand then send a notice (again notarised) that recognises their failure to respond.... this keeps a proven paper trail that cannot be refuted. It will serve as proof that your requests were not honoured...and that they are in dishonour. Remember to give them a time frame in which to respond in the first request...once time has elapsed give the notice noticing their non response. you could go even further but obviously at this point you may get what you need and may not need to go any further.

I think this is overkill! You definitely do not need a notary for disclosure. Type a letter and either fax or mail it registered. If you fax, make sure the machine spits out a confirmation. Registered mail or confirmed fax are more than enough to prove to a judge that you asked for disclosure.

If you drop it off in person to the prosecution, make sure you get back a stamped copy.

Keep is simple folks....

neo333 wrote:

dave, I recommend that you NOT use their form. It usually does not allow you to ask for what you really want and need. They cannot force you to use their form.

Disclosure requests are usually sent to prosecution (not court) as they are responsible for the disclosure. Ticketcombat.ca has a good example of a disclosure request letter (edit for your specific case).

I did use the form from ticketcombat.com they just phoned to ask how we wanted the information. They would not mail it, either pick it up or fax. I asked why and they said that mail was not provable.

Dave

You may think using a notary is overkill...BUT you should realise that a notary has equal powers to a judge !!!

I still say get it notarised. Infact use a notary for anything you need to establish as truth including establishing the truth of all actions against you. For example witnesses in a court case as well as requests stating that you have requested umpteen times and that your reques is being ignored/denied.

CoolChick wrote:

You may think using a notary is overkill...BUT you should realise that a notary has equal powers to a judge !!!

I still say get it notarised. Infact use a notary for anything you need to establish as truth including establishing the truth of all actions against you. For example witnesses in a court case as well as requests stating that you have requested umpteen times and that your reques is being ignored/denied.

A notary may wield more weight but it is more then what you need, as recognized by the courts.

In some cases it may be more that what you need, but if you want to ensure that your truth is sealed and acknowledged a notary is foolproof.

Canadian notaries public are generally restricted to administering oaths, witnessing signatures on affidavits and statutory declarations, certifying true copies, and so forth.

Therfore it is still a waste of time to notorize a request for disclosure. They would sign and stamp a request for disclosure, still NO proof it ever gets to the court house.

Best way as others have stated: walk the disclosure request in and get it stamped by the clerk, or fax it and keep the "ok" receipt. Now one has proof that disclosure was asked for. Will be up to the crown to then prove that disclosure was sent to defendant.

hwybear wrote:

Best way as others have stated: walk the disclosure request in and get it stamped by the clerk, or fax it and keep the "ok" receipt. Now one has proof that disclosure was asked for. Will be up to the crown to then prove that disclosure was sent to defendant.

+1

If the court has stamped the defendant's request when it is walked in (which they will), that is what will get the charge stayed for failure to disclose. It also costs less, as hwybear indicates. (Court stamp on disclosure request indicating "received" is free.)

I appreciate your opinions... however notaries are also bound to do as their duty requires. Please feel free to look up the duties of a notary... I think you may be surprised.