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Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:44 am 
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Carrying two insurance cards Ontario

A friend was charged with possessing two proofs of insurance, the expired card along with a valid card.

I recall visiting this subject some years ago and found some reference under the HTA, but I cannot find any reference now.

What if any regulation in Ontario states that you are only allowed to carry a single proof of insurance.

I know myself that I will often place the new slip in the glove box and forget to remove the expired slip, is this wrong?

thank you in advance for your replies.

GA.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:51 am 
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Of course common sense and a reasonable person would tell you that having a valid insurance card along with one that has expired, should not be a crime but our Canadian un-Justice system does not work on common sense or reason!

What is the exact charge (the wording and section number and Act) that your friend was charged with?

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:39 pm 
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I usually update the cards but can see how you might just slip one in,
and as jsherk says
like seriously this is even an offence, I think LEO's/justice system should be more concerned with NO insurance rather than having an expired card and new one (as long as new one is valid)
sheesh
now that sucks b**ls


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:55 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Of course common sense and a reasonable person would tell you that having a valid insurance card along with one that has expired, should not be a crime but our Canadian un-Justice system does not work on common sense or reason!

What is the exact charge (the wording and section number and Act) that your friend was charged with?


Actually I come to find out that the charge was failing to provide proof of insurance and not for having two copies of the insurance pink slip. He handed the Officer the expired copy and rather than the Officer inquire further about the expiry date, proceeded to write the ticket (nice guy). However my friend did have the new card with him but being unaware of his mistake did not think to provide it to the Officer.

However I would still like to know if it is illegal to carry two insurance slips. I have checked the HTA and the Compulsory Insurance Act and can find no reference but as I say, I recall the HTA speaking to this some years ago.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:13 pm 
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I've never heard of anything regarding carrying two insurance cards, as long as you show the correct and valid card.

Perhaps you're thinking of having two different licenses, which you can't do.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:24 pm 
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I would be concerned with section 13.1 of the CAIA with regards to an "invalid insurance card".

So say you put your new card in the vehicle but it is not valid yet, and your old one is still valid. Or the new one becomes valid, but your old one is still in the car and it is invalid now. In theory you can get a $10,000 fine for this!

Possession, use, sale, etc., of false or invalid insurance card
13.1 (1) No person shall,
(a) have a false or invalid insurance card in his or her possession that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(b) use a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(c) sell, give, deliver or distribute a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid; or
(d) produce for inspection any other evidence, that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid, that the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance.

Offence
(2) A person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and is liable on a first conviction to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000 and on a subsequent conviction to a fine of not less than $20,000 and not more than $100,000.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:44 pm 
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bend wrote:
I've never heard of anything regarding carrying two insurance cards, as long as you show the correct and valid card.

Perhaps you're thinking of having two different licenses, which you can't do.


I was going to make this very comment.

A little anecdote: A few years back I was driving my father's car and I was rear ended. Police were called and my father had not put the current insurance card in the car. He had several years of older cards. The officer asked me if my father was with the same insurance company and, knowing he was because I was taking care of his finances, I said yes. The officer did not ticket me, for which I was grateful. I wonder if the officer didn't ticket me for invalid insurance card because it was not my own car I was driving (not that that negates the need for having a current card).


Last edited by Markus on Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:48 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
I would be concerned with section 13.1 of the CAIA with regards to an "invalid insurance card".

So say you put your new card in the vehicle but it is not valid yet, and your old one is still valid. Or the new one becomes valid, but your old one is still in the car and it is invalid now. In theory you can get a $10,000 fine for this!

Possession, use, sale, etc., of false or invalid insurance card
13.1 (1) No person shall,
(a) have a false or invalid insurance card in his or her possession that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(b) use a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(c) sell, give, deliver or distribute a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid; or
(d) produce for inspection any other evidence, that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid, that the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance.

Offence
(2) A person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and is liable on a first conviction to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000 and on a subsequent conviction to a fine of not less than $20,000 and not more than $100,000.


If this is the case then the only sure fire way to avoid being penalized is to remove the old insurance card the day it expires and put the new card in the car the next day. I wonder how many people, if any, have actually been charged with having an old insurance card in their possession. I suspect few, if any.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:39 pm 
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I would suggest that this section is designed to cover the person who gets insurance, gets the slip, then cancelled the insurance and later uses the slip to appear as if he still had insurance cover.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:59 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
I would be concerned with section 13.1 of the CAIA with regards to an "invalid insurance card".



Good find thank you.

I have asked my insurance company for clarification on this and will report back what I learn.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:18 pm 
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There is no way in the world you would get a fine for $10,000 for having two insurance cards in your possession if one of those cards was from a valid contract...If you look at the intent of the legislation, it is ensure all motor vehicles are insured should there be some form of accident. That section is soley for those people who abuse the system and are trying to make it appear they are insured by producing an apparently valid insurance card...Go back and read the section: Knows or Ought to Know is False or Invalid...The scenario put forth by our friend jsherk would never happen...Argyll is 100% correct


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:40 pm 
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Posts: 600
You're confusing the terms "invalid" and "expired". Huge difference.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
Posts: 399
<GULPS>

jsherk wrote:
I would be concerned with section 13.1 of the CAIA with regards to an "invalid insurance card".

So say you put your new card in the vehicle but it is not valid yet, and your old one is still valid. Or the new one becomes valid, but your old one is still in the car and it is invalid now. In theory you can get a $10,000 fine for this!

Possession, use, sale, etc., of false or invalid insurance card
13.1 (1) No person shall,
(a) have a false or invalid insurance card in his or her possession that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(b) use a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid;
(c) sell, give, deliver or distribute a false or invalid insurance card that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid; or
(d) produce for inspection any other evidence, that he or she knows or ought to know is false or invalid, that the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance.

Offence
(2) A person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and is liable on a first conviction to a fine of not less than $10,000 and not more than $50,000 and on a subsequent conviction to a fine of not less than $20,000 and not more than $100,000.


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:56 am 
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argyll wrote:
I would suggest that this section is designed to cover the person who gets insurance, gets the slip, then cancelled the insurance and later uses the slip to appear as if he still had insurance cover.


^^^ THAT makes sense


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Re: Carrying two insurance cards Ontario
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:09 am
Posts: 75
Expired is expired, not invalid.

From what I've seen, if your friend shows up with the current slip that shows it was valid the date the officer wrote the ticket, the prosecutor will inform the JP he/she is satisfied your friend was carrying proper insurance and will withdraw the charge. Yes, it's a pain in the butt to have to deal with, but, unless prosecutors no longer go this route, your friend should be fine.


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