OHTA.ca

I hope you can help me clarify something:

Let's say in Toronto, you are on Rees St (the street between the Rogers Centre and Lakeshore) going south, and you wish to turn left on Lakeshore to go east.

In this intersection, Lakeshore is divided by a wide median. There are 2 sets of lights when coming from Rees: The 1st after the westbound lanes, and the 2nd after the eastbound lanes.

You cross the westbound lanes because the light was green, but by the time you get to the westbound lanes the light has turned red (usually because 3-4 cars in front of you had to yield the right of way to the upcoming traffic or pedestrians and turned on the yellow light).

What should one do? Stop and wait for the left-turn-only light to be green? Or turn left anyway, before the cars on Lakeshore start, even if the light is red?

I saw people do both. And I saw some people stopping at the 2nd set of lights and being honked because they didn't turn, even if the light was red.

If I recall correctly, there's no stop line before the eastbound lanes, so you're already in the (wide) intersection. In that case, if you entered it on green, you should complete the turn and clear the intersection even if the light just turned red.

Oh ok, I see. Thanks!:)

I believe Radar Identified is incorrect on this. There is nothing in the HTA to indicate that a stopping line is necessary, infact, most intersections do not have them. There are two stop lights, and Lakeshore is divided by a large median. If it is considered one intersection, there would be no need for the second light. While his argument may give rise to a due diligence defence in court, I don't think it will fly.

Instead, look at Section 144 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. It deals with dtopping at a red light. Section 144(18) says the driver must stop their vehicle before entering an intersection where a red light is displayed and may not proceed until it is green. (I'm paraphrasing) The exception to that is Section 144(19) which allows you to turn right on a red light (you still have to stop first), or turn left but only if you are turning from a one way street, to a one way street. In this particualr case, Rees St is a two way street and you would be turning left to a one way street. (The median does act as a divide for the highway here making each direction a one way street).

Ultimately, nobody would fault you legally for staying at the red light and waiting till its green, its legal and safe. If other drivers are honking at you, ignore them, you are the one that would be criminally and civily liable for your driving, not them. Should they chose to drive around you like an ass, then let them and be prepared to tell the officer what an unsafe driver they are because they caused that accident.

This is what I first thought, EZ Coach. Because there 2 are stop lights, it was at first a no-brainer to me that the first lights were to cross Lakeshore westbound lanes, and the second lights were to cross the eastbound lanes. But having been honked at a few times, and seeing how most drivers were behaving I had doubts (and still have them actually).

Radar Identified's and your post shows it is not that clear for anyone how to behave in this intersection.

It would be great if someone from the police force would see this thread and enlighten us.

For now, in the doubt, the penalty for running a red light is much more severe than if stopping at the second lights. So I guess I'll have to get used to hear honking behind me...