Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

ppstream1
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Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

Hi OHTA forums,

I got pulled over for disobey the "No Heavy truck" sign, on the ticket it say Highway traffic act Section 182(2), but I think I didn't disobey the "No Heavy Truck" sign, because my truck was loaded with delivery items(which at the time it was under 5 tonnes), I didn't request for disclosure, the cop that pulled me over didn't even check my truck to see if it is over 5 tonnes.

So in this case if I provide the information on how heavy my truck is can I win the case? Also I didn't see the "No heavy truck" Sign until I left turn into the road(I made a left turn into a "No Heavy truck" sign road, I was 3 car away from the traffic light and there was left turn signal when I turned it)

With these two supports, which one do you guys think it will likely to win the case?

Your help is appreciated
Paul


jsherk
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 23(3)

Unread post by jsherk »

Section 23(3) of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act says:
Every driver of a commercial motor vehicle shall carry evidence of a type prescribed by the regulations that the vehicle is insured as required by this section and shall surrender the evidence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer.

Was the ticket in Ontario? Can you scan and post a copy of the ticket with personal info blacked out?

We need to see the officers notes before we can decide if you have a good case to win. You should plead NOT GUILTY and request a Trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, then you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get that, post them back up here for more help.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

Hi Jsherk,

I put the wrong section number, it is 182(2), I am too late for request disclosure now, when I got the ticket I was thinking of fighting it with the truck weight evidence so I didn't request for disclosure, and my trial is next week....when I go to the court can I ask for officer to provide the evidence that my truck is over 5 tonnes? or ask officer to show proof that I entered No heavy truck road straightly(because I don't see the No heavy truck sign until I made my left turn, I can take picture of it and show it in the court)

Regards,
Pual


whaddyaknow
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by whaddyaknow »

Where did this occur? My understanding is that the regulations around heavy truck restrictions would be municipal bylaws.

In generally, though, I believe that your truck would be classified as "heavy" based on it's unloaded weight, so what you were actually carrying doesn't matter.

The Toronto bylaw, for example, includes what they call a "necessary exemption" if you are making a local delivery to an address which can not be accessed by an other roads... was that the case here?


jsherk
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by jsherk »

You should really get disclosure before trial. I would send a request ASAP for it. At the first trial date, you can request an adjournment to another date as you will need time to review the disclosure and prepare a defense as if you have just received it you will not have enough time to do it.

We need to know what the officers notes say before we can suggest a defense.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

Hi Whaddyaknow,

I am driving on Lawrence turning left on to Brimley Rd(heading down to Eglinton rd, delivery is at the corner of brimley and eglinton),

I went to city website, it state that "A commercial vehicle having a weight, when unloaded, of three (3) tonnes or more or, when loaded, of five (5) tonnes or more, and includes a school bus longer than eight (8) metres and a road building machine, but does not include a passenger vehicle, an ambulance or any vehicle of a police or fire department." So if I loading with items under 5 tonnes My truck will not consider as a Heavy Truck(that's how I understand it correct me if I am wrong)

Also, Delivery vehicles "The only other regulation directly impacting on trucking/delivery activity is the "No Standing" regulation. No standing regulations are specifically intended to prohibit vehicle from stopping to deliver or pick-up merchandise. No vehicle, regardless of size, making a delivery or pick-up of merchandise may legally stop to do so in an area identified as a "No Standing" zone during the times/days of the week the regulation is in effect"


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

Hi jsherk,

My trial date is next Monday, is it still possible to request disclosure?


jsherk
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by jsherk »

Yes.

At this stage, I would just wait until trial and on that day ask for it and say you did not know you could ask sooner.

And then tell you want to have time to review the disclosure and possibly seek legal advice and most likely you will get an adjournment to new trial date.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


whaddyaknow
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by whaddyaknow »

ppstream1 wrote:A commercial vehicle having a weight, when unloaded, of three (3) tonnes or more or, when loaded, of five (5) tonnes or more,
To me (no expert) that's a bit vague in its wording (and may not be the official bylaw wording either).

I agree with jsherk, get the disclosure and an adjournment.

One interpretation could be that it the curb weight (i.e. without cargo or passengers) of your vehicle is over 3t, the sign applies. Another interpretation could be that if the registered gross weight of the vehicle is over 5t, the sign applies.

My understanding is that the RGW is determined by your vehicle registration, and so the officer would know that information (maybe?). If the second interpretation (above) is correct, then this could be the officer's basis for laying the charge, and you don't have a defense really. Disclosure plus a little research should clear that all up.

If for some reason your adjournment is denied, then I would assume that the onus would be on the crown to prove that your vehicle meets the description. Better minds will tell me if I'm wrong!


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

Thank you guys for the opinion, I will see how it going on the trial and ask for disclosure if I can get it.


jsherk
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by jsherk »

Assuming the officer did not weigh your truck, then you can probably beat the ticket.

Basically ask the officer how heavy your truck is (which he wont know), then read the bylaw and then say that the prosecution failed to prove that your truck meets the definition of heavy truck and therefore the charge should be withdrawn.

You do not even need to mention that your truck was not heavy yourself because it is the prosecutor and officer that need to prove that it is.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


lolwut
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by lolwut »

What kind of vehicle were you driving? What is the RGW?


whaddyaknow
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by whaddyaknow »

ppstream1 wrote:Thank you guys for the opinion, I will see how it going on the trial and ask for disclosure if I can get it.
Just for clarification: there's no "if I can get it" about it; you are legally entitled to disclosure.


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

To lolwut,

My truck's RGW is 8000kg, its a Hino 185


ppstream1
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Re: Disobey Sign Section 182(2)

Unread post by ppstream1 »

jsherk wrote:Assuming the officer did not weigh your truck, then you can probably beat the ticket.

Basically ask the officer how heavy your truck is (which he wont know), then read the bylaw and then say that the prosecution failed to prove that your truck meets the definition of heavy truck and therefore the charge should be withdrawn.

You do not even need to mention that your truck was not heavy yourself because it is the prosecutor and officer that need to prove that it is.
Jsherk, should I say that to prosecutor or to the judge when it is in court? From my past experience, when I get to the court prosecutor will talk to me first and ask me if I guilty or not, or set a deal with me, but I will told him I am not plea guilty, and when in court time, I will ask officer how heavy my truck is then read the "Heavy truck bylaw" in the court to set my charge to be withdrawn right.


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