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Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:22 pm
by dayle

On Friday I was received a ticket for jaywalking. I was downtown (Toronto) at King and Yonge and started walking as my light turned green, but didn't notice that it was an advance green and I didn't have a walk signal until I was halfway through the intersection (pretty sure the advance had been added recently due to the king street congestion pilot). Unluckily for me there was a police officer turning on the advance and immediately flagged me down. He gave me a ticket for "Pedestrian Disobey Red Light" under the HTA 144(25). He asked if I drive, and when I said I do he said he didn't know if it would give me demerit points or affect my insurance. I've since searched on the internet for the answer but wasn't able to find out definitively, which has lead me to this forum.

So my question to the good people of this forum: will a "Pedestrian Disobey Red Light -
HTA 144(25)" affect my drivers license and/or insurance in any way if I just pay the fine? The fine is 35$ + administration (???) = $50. Money wise it would not be worth it to me to fight, but if I'm going to get demerit points for my DRIVERS License based on my WALKING (no license required last time I checked) I think I'd have to fight that on principle.

Thank you.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:44 pm
by Whenaxis
Did you provide your driver's license for ID, and does your driver's license information appear on the ticket?

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:47 pm
by dayle
Yes and yes. In retrospect I should not have given him my drivers license.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:02 pm
by bend
It should not, but sometimes it's a problem. This is especially the case for bicycles.

The only time this ever becomes an issue is when the officer doesn't make a distinction between whether or not a motor vehicle is used.

It happens with bicycles quite a bit where someone pays a ticket and then gets a shock later on when they have demerit points and increased insurance premiums.

If the ticket is issued correctly, it will never get sent to the ministry.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:00 pm
by Whenaxis
I was always under the impression that if the driver's license is on the ticket, then upon conviction, it is an automatic process where the conviction is registered on the driving record associated with your driver's license. Even if this ends being up the case, there is no demerit points associated with this offence and I don't think it will affect insurance at all even if it appears on your record.

Obviously parking tickets and red light camera tickets don't affect your driving record because there is no way to attribute it to a particular driver's license. But, I have heard of instances where traffic bylaw charges, bicycle charges (as bend mentioned), and passenger seatbelt charges end up on a driving record if a driver's license is used as a form of ID and is on the ticket.

I remember my driving instructor from way back when said something along the lines of: "If you ever get a ticket for a bicycle or passenger seatbelt offence, don't give them your driver's license. Say you left your wallet at home." He was making a joke, but perhaps there is some truth to it.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:20 pm
by dayle
Thanks for the responses. It is unfortunate that I didn't think to not give him my license. Not that I really had anything else to give him though, giving him my my business card or employee badge probably would have exasperated the situation... Curious to know if anyone else has given an officer a non-official ID and how it went.

In any case, from my understanding there is a very very small chance it will affect my insurance even if it is on my file, so I'll just pay it. Thank you for your guidance.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:23 pm
by DCamM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're NOT operating a motor vehicle and a peace officer suspects you've committed an offence, all that is legally required is that you provide satisfactory identification, ie Ontario Health Card, passport, etc. Surrendering a driver's licence is not required and should be avoided.

Re: Pedestrian Disobey Red Light

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:26 pm
by Whenaxis
If a peace officer sees you committing a non-driving HTA offence (i.e. bicycle, pedestrian, passenger), you are required to identify yourself by providing your name and address. There is no requirement that you must provide a form of government issued ID, but you can be arrested if you refuse to provide your name and address. You can also be charged with obstructing justice or obstructing the police if you provide false information.

If you are stopped while driving, you are required to provide your driver's license, car registration and insurance upon request, otherwise you can be charged for not providing any of these.