Threatened with racing charges

Raphiki
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Threatened with racing charges

Unread post by Raphiki »

Hey everyone, maybe someone can help me out with this little problem. Couple days ago me and a friend were driving our bikes on a roadway with a posted speed limit of 60km/h. We got caught driving 88km/h and given a set fine of $135 and 3 points. Now the problem, after being pulled over the cop was shaking with anger, told us he wants to tow our bikes (Yes we both pulled over with only one curser). After spending about an hour on his cell phone and talking to another cop that arrived at a later time, he approached us and still insisted that he was towing our bikes and charging us with racing based and that both of us have past a vehicle on a signal lane roadway. He also said it took him a long time to catch up (both of us didn’t see him at the side of the road, about 1.5km down from where we got pulled over). After using his due diligence, the charge was set fine of $135 and 3 points. He said if we pay the tickets in a short time everything will be good, but if we take it to court he will be asking the crown to charge us with Racing. He did also mention that he only had me clocked at 88km/h and had to catch up to us to get a reading on his radar gun. Any advice on what he can really do, or on how to continue with this.


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hwybear
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Re: Threatened with racing charges

Unread post by hwybear »

Raphiki wrote:that both of us have past a vehicle on a signal lane roadway
What do you mean by "signal lane"
- single lane (one way traffic)
- two lane (one single lane each direction) or
- signal lane (meant for motorists to turn)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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hwybear
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Re: Threatened with racing charges

Unread post by hwybear »

Raphiki wrote:. He said if we pay the tickets in a short time everything will be good, but if we take it to court he will be asking the crown to charge us with Racing. He did also mention that he only had me clocked at 88km/h and had to catch up to us to get a reading on his radar gun. Any advice on what he can really do, or on how to continue with this.
I do not know what you should do!

Having said that, if I want to issue another offence that is higher than what is on the offence served, I have to serve the driver with a summons, or have a local police force(if out of my area) serve the summons onto the driver, advising them of the charge. I have only done that once in 11yrs, only b/c the first charge was not appropriate enough to successfully get a conviction.

I have seen the offence changed in court for 2 reasons:
- plead down in agreement to a lower charge OR
- a lowered speeding ticket raised back up to the orignal speed which the vehicle was clocked at.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Raphiki
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Unread post by Raphiki »

two lane (one single lane each direction)

-he said if i take it to court the he will ask the crown or justice of the piece to change the charges to stunt driving.

-What I was thinking was taking option 4 and asking for the cops notes, but before I do this I want to find out if there is any way he could change the charges after issuing the ticket. The only reason I'm still looking in to this is because I want to get ride of the points, I want be able to afford the insurance after this violation.

Thanks for answering so fast hwybear


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Bookm
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Unread post by Bookm »

"IF IT WERE ME" (but it ain't)...

I would wait 13 days from the offense date then file a not-guilty. I would wait for my court date to arrive in the mail. After 30 days have passed from the offense date, the officer can not write you a new ticket. He would have to proceed under the rules of a part III summons, which means a Justice of the Peace would have to allow the new charge. The last time I was in court (helping a family member) the JP stopped the proceedings when she discovered the ticket had been issued 5 days after the offense date. I didn't realize that was a problem for the Crown until the JP brought it up. She asked if we would like to file a motion to have the charge dismissed based on *insert technical terms here*................. "case dismissed".

I think this cop is trying to scare you in to paying up without having a solid case at all! I think he's bluffing with the Racing threat, but it's not my license at stake! ;)

Be careful, your insurance company may raise your rates based on non-point violations also, so you might want to think about defending yourself completely. If you haven't defended yourself before, this might not be a good one to learn with. You should run your case by a paralegal or lawyer.
Last edited by Bookm on Fri May 30, 2008 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.


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hwybear
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Unread post by hwybear »

Bookm wrote:. After 30 days have passed from the offense date, the officer can not write you a new ticket. He would have to proceed under the rules of a part III summons, which means a Justice of the Peace would have to allow the new charge. The last time I was in court (helping a family member) the JP stopped the proceedings when she discovered the ticket had been issued 5 days after the offense date. I didn't realize that was a problem for the Crown until the JP brought it up. She asked if we would like to file a motion to have the charge dismissed based on *insert technical terms here*................. "case dismissed".
Not sure what all that was about...as mentioned we have up to 30 days to issue a Provincial Offence Notice (ticket). Then we have to proceed my a long form summons (Part III's are not acceptable at least in my area) and can issue it for up to 6 months.
What I'm thinking happened, is the officer didn't check off the box "served on other date, and wrote that date in"..plus the officer now would have to swear to the offence notice to a Commisionor of Oaths (usually someone within the offence) and be signed and stamped on the back side.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Reflections
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Re: Threatened with racing charges

Unread post by Reflections »

Raphiki wrote:Hey everyone, maybe someone can help me out with this little problem. Couple days ago me and a friend were driving our bikes on a roadway with a posted speed limit of 60km/h. We got caught driving 88km/h and given a set fine of $135 and 3 points. Now the problem, after being pulled over the cop was shaking with anger, told us he wants to tow our bikes (Yes we both pulled over with only one curser). After spending about an hour on his cell phone and talking to another cop that arrived at a later time, he approached us and still insisted that he was towing our bikes and charging us with racing based and that both of us have past a vehicle on a signal lane roadway. He also said it took him a long time to catch up (both of us didn’t see him at the side of the road, about 1.5km down from where we got pulled over). After using his due diligence, the charge was set fine of $135 and 3 points. He said if we pay the tickets in a short time everything will be good, but if we take it to court he will be asking the crown to charge us with Racing. He did also mention that he only had me clocked at 88km/h and had to catch up to us to get a reading on his radar gun. Any advice on what he can really do, or on how to continue with this.
So it sounds to me that he thought you were going faster then 88 in a 60. Like Bookm said though, this would not be one to learn on. If it was me I would love to see the officer try to prove what he doesn't have. This could be one of the cases that brings this law down...if,if,if. :twisted:
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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Unread post by Raphiki »

thanks for all the input.
I have spoken to a friend officer that works in TO telling him every detail of the story. Apparently he could have charged us with racing.just on the bases of "Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle" Section 172. There is no way we could have proven that we were not in competition. It would have been our word against his in court. The officers suggestion was to choose option 4 and speech to the prosecutor and read the cops not which will be available at the time of appointment. If I can find a loop hole then take it to court and fight it other then that try to negotiate a higher fine over the points. I will keep you guys updated on how this works but the appointment is set for September so it will be a long wait.


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Reflections
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Unread post by Reflections »

Raphiki wrote: "Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle" Section 172.
It sounds to me that you were two guys out enjoying a ride. When people go out together they want to stay together. The tough part here would be for the officer or crown to prove what you were thinking. The way I read S.172 there seems to be a "small" insinuation of "intent". Your intent here was not to catch and pass as quickly as possible but to catch up and stay with your friend. If you got on the gas with a little vigor then I can see what got the officers attention.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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FiReSTaRT
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Unread post by FiReSTaRT »

I really hope the law enforcement community doesn't start laying stunting charges for riding in a formation. Stunting is a charge that's serious enough to make people reconsider the option of just running. If more people start running, they'll start laying down even more oppressive laws and make it even worse for the riding community. With the way the insurance industry is surcharging us, the state of the economy, shops closing down all over the place and the heavy profiling we're already victims of, it won't take much to cause a massive collapse.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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Reflections
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Unread post by Reflections »

FiReSTaRT wrote:I really hope the law enforcement community doesn't start laying stunting charges for riding in a formation. Stunting is a charge that's serious enough to make people reconsider the option of just running. If more people start running, they'll start laying down even more oppressive laws and make it even worse for the riding community. With the way the insurance industry is surcharging us, the state of the economy, shops closing down all over the place and the heavy profiling we're already victims of, it won't take much to cause a massive collapse.
I think you can read some of 'bears more recent posts, and find that the officers should not use this section unless the facts are obvious, i.e. 255 in a 100 zone.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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FiReSTaRT
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Unread post by FiReSTaRT »

Reflections wrote: I think you can read some of 'bears more recent posts, and find that the officers should not use this section unless the facts are obvious, i.e. 255 in a 100 zone.
I hope other constables read'em too. Otherwise, there goes $1000 down the drain and a suspension on the record.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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FyreStorm
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Unread post by FyreStorm »

255 in a 100 km/h zone? Yikes that's just plain dangerous driving (Criminal Code)...I can't see any reasonable excuse to go 155 in a 100...even the police who get special training are instructed that at about 40km/h over the speed of traffic your training won't help you...

If you are doing 155/100 you deserve the stunting ticket. That's ridiculous driving period. Road safety is more important that someone else's cheap thrills...


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