Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

TomLee
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Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

hi could somone help me with my ticket ?

iam from ottawa, ont .... on the july 30( civic holiday weekend) i was drving my mom, dad, little sister to toronto to visit my sista....going throught belleville . i was driving on the right lane on the highway by the way ... suddenlly i saw cars in front of me slowing down on both lane ... i did too .. i thought there was an accident or something to the point that i could see the stopped cop car on the the road with light on and 2 unmarked cop cars ... i was trying to change lane but i couldnt so i did slow down, moved over to the white dotted line as far i could and proceeded with caution, passing by the 2 cars no problem to the third car ... i saw the cop was standing infront of his car.... looked at me and give me a signal to pull over..... ive pulled over ... rolled down the window and wait for him ... i remember i was only going under 80kms passing him .... so i could pull over not too far from his car...

He came... and just started yelling at me .." YOU GOTTA PULL OVER MAN" 3 time.... my dad said he did slowed down ... the officer said i dont car .. i wanna see ur driver licence and owernship ... so i handed over to him...he went back to his car ... 10mins later came back.. to my car , i saw the yellow papper thing" ticket" i asked him u're actually giving me a ticket for slowed down and passed with caution ... he said " YES" 400 AND 3POINTS ..i was like refussing take it the ticket he said "IF U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT .. TAKE IT TO THE COURT" he said everything so loud and Before he left he said that u're the first but not the last ? i was last what the hell .... and on the Tues day after the holiday i went to the court in Belleville ... talk to the lady there... she asked me are u concering about the points or money ... i said both... so she said pick option 3 and wait for the letter for the first meeting ... ?


question iit? what do i have to do or say for the first meeting ? thanks everyone for ur help


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Radar Identified
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Radar Identified »

Say for the first meeting? You could see if they offer you a reduced charge. If you want to fight this, you have three witnesses who were in your vehicle who could all testify that you did slow down and proceed with caution. The first meeting (or "First Attendance") is simply to try to resolve the issue without a trial. If a resolution is not reached, then they wait for a trial date. They still might offer a deal on the day of trial.

You have to change lanes if safely able; if not, you must slow down and proceed with caution. If you did either/or, you didn't break the law.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

Radar Identified wrote:Say for the first meeting? You could see if they offer you a reduced charge. If you want to fight this, you have three witnesses who were in your vehicle who could all testify that you did slow down and proceed with caution. The first meeting (or "First Attendance") is simply to try to resolve the issue without a trial. If a resolution is not reached, then they wait for a trial date. They still might offer a deal on the day of trial.

You have to change lanes if safely able; if not, you must slow down and proceed with caution. If you did either/or, you didn't break the law.

thats what iam waiting for " First Attendance " i guess ... but do i have the right to say something when i go in their office ? or i just have to shut up and let them do all the talking and their offer ? because ive hear that they dont care about our witnesses which in my case ...dad, mom and sis happened to be in the same car with me ? do i have the right do tell them what happened ? or they just go by the cops notes ? the section he'd put on the ticket that 159(3) whatever thats it ...thanks for the help


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Drupjohn »

Your first date will be just that, the first date. When you get that date in the mail, ASK FOR DISCLOSURE. This is the officers notes of the incident. The officer ALWAYS has to write notes of every incident, regardless of whether a ticket was issued. If you don't get disclosure by the first appearance date, then on that date, you state to the JP that you don't have disclosure and would like to set another date until you receive disclosure. You and the court will agree on a date. REQUEST DISCLOSURE AGAIN! All requests for disclosure MUST be in writing (faxed preferably since you can prove you faxed it).

If you don't get disclosure by the second date, let the JP know when the date rolls around (or the Crown prosecutor) and the case may get tossed OR another date will be set (yes, this is annoying). If you don't end up getting disclosure after you have requested two or three times, the Crown will have NO CHOICE but to withdraw the ticket. However, NOT requesting disclosure is NOT a reason to have the case tossed, you have to request it.

I did my paralegal placement with a company that fought traffic tickets and we would delay to allow someones' insurance to renew without a conviction of the points on their record. It's fairly straight forward, and the Crown understands this. However, if you defend yourself, you run the risk of NOT knowing the 'tricks' of the trade that will allow your insurance to stay low and/or ways to get the ticket withdrawn.

At trial you will have the three witnesses in the car that said you slowed down because you couldn't change lanes. If you can meet with the Crown before that and let him know what those three witnesses will testify (and those three other people in the car SHOULD be in the officers notes) the case may get tossed.


TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

Drupjohn wrote:Your first date will be just that, the first date. When you get that date in the mail, ASK FOR DISCLOSURE. This is the officers notes of the incident. The officer ALWAYS has to write notes of every incident, regardless of whether a ticket was issued. If you don't get disclosure by the first appearance date, then on that date, you state to the JP that you don't have disclosure and would like to set another date until you receive disclosure. You and the court will agree on a date. REQUEST DISCLOSURE AGAIN! All requests for disclosure MUST be in writing (faxed preferably since you can prove you faxed it).

If you don't get disclosure by the second date, let the JP know when the date rolls around (or the Crown prosecutor) and the case may get tossed OR another date will be set (yes, this is annoying). If you don't end up getting disclosure after you have requested two or three times, the Crown will have NO CHOICE but to withdraw the ticket. However, NOT requesting disclosure is NOT a reason to have the case tossed, you have to request it.

I did my paralegal placement with a company that fought traffic tickets and we would delay to allow someones' insurance to renew without a conviction of the points on their record. It's fairly straight forward, and the Crown understands this. However, if you defend yourself, you run the risk of NOT knowing the 'tricks' of the trade that will allow your insurance to stay low and/or ways to get the ticket withdrawn.

At trial you will have the three witnesses in the car that said you slowed down because you couldn't change lanes. If you can meet with the Crown before that and let him know what those three witnesses will testify (and those three other people in the car SHOULD be in the officers notes) the case may get tossed.

thanks for the tips ... but what if on the officers notes ...he didn't note that i did have my dad , mom and sister in the car with me ?


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Stanton »

It's usually good practice for an officer to record the number of passengers in his or her notes, but I wouldn't say it's critical if they left that information out. It simply makes it much harder for the Crown to refute that someone was in your vehicle if you call them as a witness.


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

Stanton wrote:It's usually good practice for an officer to record the number of passengers in his or her notes, but I wouldn't say it's critical if they left that information out. It simply makes it much harder for the Crown to refute that someone was in your vehicle if you call them as a witness.
so can i still bring my dad, mom, sis to testify in court or no unless the offices notes does mention about them?


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Stanton »

TomLee wrote:so can i still bring my dad, mom, sis to testify in court or no unless the offices notes does mention about them?
Yes, absolutely. You can call whoever you want as a witness. I simply meant that if someone you called as a witness wasn't actually in your car, it would be hard for the Crown to refute this point unless the officer made notes as to who was in the vehicle.


TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

Stanton wrote:It's usually good practice for an officer to record the number of passengers in his or her notes, but I wouldn't say it's critical if they left that information out. It simply makes it much harder for the Crown to refute that someone was in your vehicle if you call them as a witness.
thanks guys... honestly i was gonna fight for this ticket at all, but after ive talked to peoples and told them what happened they're all saying that i should fight for it,and after reading all the threads from this site now iam think iam ready for this :) but again hopefully when the first meeting comes, they're gonna offer me something with no points ,because i can not keep driving 3hrs away from this :) but if i dont fight for this ticket ... i think it was so unfair for me plus he was really rude, yelled at me and my mom which she doesn't speak any english was sitting at the back seat and kept asking me why "hes yelling at you" and she got scared at that day...because of him


TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

TomLee wrote:
Stanton wrote:It's usually good practice for an officer to record the number of passengers in his or her notes, but I wouldn't say it's critical if they left that information out. It simply makes it much harder for the Crown to refute that someone was in your vehicle if you call them as a witness.
thanks guys... honestly i was gonna fight for this ticket at all, but after ive talked to peoples and told them what happened they're all saying that i should fight for it,and after reading all the threads from this site now iam think iam ready for this :) but again hopefully when the first meeting comes, they're gonna offer me something with no points ,because i can not keep driving 3hrs away from this :) but if i dont fight for this ticket ... i think it was so unfair for me plus he was really rude, yelled at me and my mom which she doesn't speak any english was sitting at the back seat and kept asking me why "hes yelling at you" and she got scared at that day...because of him
i wasn't gonna fight for this ticket at all :)


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Stanton »

Just a few points:

1) If your mother doesn't speak any English, you will need to notify the Court ahead of time so that an interpreter can be present. You (or your family) are not allowed to translate for her since you could be considered bias.

2) Don't make the mistake of addressing the officer's attitude during the trial, it's irrelevant to the charge itself and can weaken your case if you get too focused on it. Any concerns you have with the officer's conduct are best directed to the police service itself.


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

Stanton wrote:Just a few points:

1) If your mother doesn't speak any English, you will need to notify the Court ahead of time so that an interpreter can be present. You (or your family) are not allowed to translate for her since you could be considered bias.

2) Don't make the mistake of addressing the officer's attitude during the trial, it's irrelevant to the charge itself and can weaken your case if you get too focused on it. Any concerns you have with the officer's conduct are best directed to the police service itself.
Stanton ... thanks for sharing .... this is really good to know... because i never had any ticket b4 this at all ...and its my first time ever in court ... yah i should make a complain at his station because i just met a guy , he just moved here from belleville ... and happend to be the same officer that pulled me over and he said that the officer has really bad attitude and he did yelled at him when he pulled him over too .. and he did make a complain and he did win his case ... cuz the officer gave him a "wrongful ticket" lol wondering y he's still a COP :)


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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by Squishy »

TomLee wrote:
Stanton wrote:Just a few points:

1) If your mother doesn't speak any English, you will need to notify the Court ahead of time so that an interpreter can be present. You (or your family) are not allowed to translate for her since you could be considered bias.

2) Don't make the mistake of addressing the officer's attitude during the trial, it's irrelevant to the charge itself and can weaken your case if you get too focused on it. Any concerns you have with the officer's conduct are best directed to the police service itself.
Stanton ... thanks for sharing .... this is really good to know... because i never had any ticket b4 this at all ...and its my first time ever in court ... yah i should make a complain at his station because i just met a guy , he just moved here from belleville ... and happend to be the same officer that pulled me over and he said that the officer has really bad attitude and he did yelled at him when he pulled him over too .. and he did make a complain and he did win his case ... cuz the officer gave him a "wrongful ticket" lol wondering y he's still a COP :)
I've been on the "other side" a few times, on a roadway speaking into a vehicle. I have caught myself speaking too loudly, and it's not any aggressiveness on my part, but the noise of passing vehicles and the "barrier" of the vehicle makes the other party seem far away, thus the subconscious need to raise my voice. Of course, those inside the vehicle are insulated from the noise from the roadway and are in fact just a few feet from me so it seems like I'm yelling at them.

I'm not saying whether or not this was the case with the other officer, just giving another possible explanation of why he was yelling.
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TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

finally i have my first meeting with the Prosecutor on Dec 16 ... so please advice me what to say to him and what not ? does he give me a chance to tell him what did happend? thanks


TomLee
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Re: Fail to move into another lane for emergency vehicles?

Unread post by TomLee »

hi guys... so i went to my first meeting... it didn't go too well ,,, it was only like not even 1mins he just said like " nothing i can do , u want a trial? so i said yes.... so can u guys tell me or give me some advice what to do or what to expected during a trial ? thanks


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