144 (18) Red light offence in traffic

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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:37 pm

144 (18) Red light offence in traffic

Unread post by College2012 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:33 pm

I was behind a car turning left to go north on Bathurst St. while driving eastbound on College St. the other evening (it was dark) and was given a ticket for disobeying the red light (144.18). I had entered the intersection on green and the light changed to red before the car ahead of me eventually turned left. I proceeded to clear intersection and continue eastbound as I was blocking the crosswalk and potential southbound Bathurst traffic.
A Police officer who had pulled a car over on the far side of intersection, on eastbound curb lane, was engaged with another motorist, i.e. getting their drivers licence etc.. His lights were flashing and he was standing about two car lengths east of bathurst street on the drivers side of the car that he had pulled over. He flagged me down telling me that he had watched me proceed through the intersection on red and that I didn't need to do that. I told him that I had no choice but to clear intersection. He disagreed and wrote me up.

A few points that I thought of raising at trail are:
- he was busy with another issue when he claims that he saw that I ran the red light
- he could have no way of seeing exactly where I was located when the light changed due to this angle, distance, darkness and the car ahead of me turning left impairing his view of my front end.
- there is also a red light camera located on the SW corner of that intersection which would have recorded any offence but since I was easily over the white line and cross walk it would not have been triggered.

Below is a google streetview photo of the intersection. I would have been behind the cab that is turning left. The actual car that was ahead of me, a 1990's Honda Civic or Acura EL 1.7 sedan, was significantly further into the intersection. You can see where the faded white line and crosswalk are located. The officer would have been in the distance near where the white van going eastbound is located.

I contacted Toronto Transportation Services re: the red light camera and they advise that in all probability it would have been functioning at the time.

Besides requesting disclosure, are there any other issues/cases I could cite?

Bathurst College NW corner.JPG
Bathurst College NW corner.JPG (149.13 KiB) Viewed 948 times

OPS Copper
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Re: 144 (18) Red light offence in traffic

Unread post by OPS Copper » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:45 pm

Not all camera boxes have cameras installed. There are more boxes than cameras so that my not be able to help or prove anything.


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Re: 144 (18) Red light offence in traffic

Unread post by Stanton » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:42 pm

As stated above, the fact that the red light camera didn’t go off isn’t proof in itself. I don’t know about Toronto, but several cities rotate them around so there’s not always a camera in a box. They also require a minimum speed to trip (aprox 25-30 km/hr), so if you proceed into the intersection below that speed it wouldn’t activate.

I think your best line of defence would be to argue the fact that the officer was engaged with another stop and wouldn’t have a clear view of your offence and your position relative to the stop line.

I’d certainly request disclosure and see what the officer’s notes say.

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