Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Alex132
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Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by Alex132 »

First I would like to say Hi everyone. It's a great forum with lots of valuable information. I need some advice regarding my ticket. Thank you for any help.

At the beginning of this year I was going eastbound on harbour and made a left turn onto young. It was my first time driving in downtown. I got to the intersection, I was in the left lane which is a turning lane but I switched out from the lane shortly before approaching the intersection due to all the signs that say no left turn distillery blablabla. So I was the third in line and after the lights turned green I saw both cars make a left, so did I turn left as I thought I'm in the designated turning lane. All the sudden I hear Whoop whoop and see flashing lights so I pulled over. The police officer asked me why did I make a turn? I said two guys made a turn I thought I was in the turning lane and he answered that he can't catch everyone. So that's how I got my first ticket.

I opted for early resolution, I was disappointed as people in front of me where offered to have their charges withdrawn because it was their first time. I was only offered reduced points and same fine. So now I'm a student and this will be a big hit on my insurance and I already feel bad for everyone who is being milked by insurance. I decided to go to a trial. However I forgot about the ticket and didn't request disclosure until the week of Oct 2nd and my trial is on Nov 21 so technically it is 8 weeks, but I don't know what to do now. One of the reasons I forgot to request for disclosure was dads very serious health problems, as well as the lady said I needed to receive the trial letter first which took like two or three months.

Thank you for any advice!


argyll
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by argyll »

That's a tough one. I've driven in unfamiliar areas before and it is natural to 'when in Rome, do what the Romans do'. Unfortunately for you that doesn't work as a defence so you'll need to find something in the disclosure that actually gives you an out.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


Alex132
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by Alex132 »

Ok thank you. They should build a roundabout In that place 8)

So is it still ok that I requested for disclosure so late?
What are my potential defences? Would Ford F-150 be considered a long vehicle? Or the angles of the intersection, where you have to slightly turn to the left in order to go through the intersection? Or the amount of signs which is actually confusing? Or if something in my car broke shortly after however it was only making a sound as if something was about to break? I was with one person in the car so should he come to trial as a witness? In addition he said everything in being recorded on his body camera, will they literally show me making that turn in front of the judge? They also misspelled my name which I told them to fix but they didn't bother.


jsherk
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by jsherk »

You need to get the disclosure first (officers notes) and read them before you can decide how to fight it, but the suggestions you made above are probably not good defences at all.

Mispelled name does not matter.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Observer135
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by Observer135 »

You can request disclosure at any time, even at the trial, the problem is that since you did not ask for it earlier, any delays because of it will count against you and not the crown, thus if you were to try and file a 11b motion, it would not count towards it.
Also, generally speaking JP's do not like it when they see you have not done anything until two weeks before trial.


Alex132
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by Alex132 »

Ok so for clarification. I wanted to request disclosure the day I signed the documents requesting the trial, however the lady told me I need to be patient and wait until I get my Notice Of Trial in the mail, than I can request disclosure. So how is it delay caused by me if i had to wait almost a month to get my Notice Of Trial I was to busy working and I didn't know I can mail it, the lady at the counter told me to come in person and the court is only open for 8 hours. Anyway I actually sent the request 10 weeks in advance, In the beginning of September, If it says 6-8 weeks to respond than i could only mail it twice given the short time period. Therefore ->End of April (Request for trial) and first disclosure request (rejected) -> Mid June (Notice of Trial In Mail) -> July, August ( Working very hard because one of my family members was very sick for a long time) -> Beginning of September ( second request for disclosure) -> End of October (check up call, still no disclosure) -> Today ( faxed another disclosure request ) and now I'm very lost.


jsherk
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by jsherk »

Usually you would wait to get your Notice of Trial before you request disclosure. And then you should request the disclosure at least 6 weeks before the trial. As long as you requested the disclosure 6 weeks in advance then they will not count it against you. If your Notice of Trial came less than 6 weeks before the trial date, then they will not count it against you either. Your excuse of being too busy will probably not work.

You dont need to be worrying too much about the delays though until you get to that 1 year time frame. This is when you can try to figure out who is responsible for what delays.

Anyways, if they give you disclosure less than two weeks before the trial (up to and including on the trial date) then you can just ask for adjournment because you need more time to review the disclosure and have not had enough time to review it and make full answer and defense.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


argyll
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by argyll »

It seems as if less matters are taking long enough for a Charter challenge......I don't have any facts to support that but it seems that way. A bot like officers not turning up for trials; almost a thing of the past.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


Alex132
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Re: Improper left turn HTA 141(6)

Unread post by Alex132 »

I already got convicted, the trial was in October instead of November. Nonetheless thank you for your help, my next ticket I will fight the proper way.


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