Made a left, got rear ended ...

JohnDeere
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by JohnDeere »

Part III is not a more "severe" charge, its simply a different way of charging you. The prosecutor can't give you a ticket with a set fine like a police officer, but they can use a part III summons to require you to come to court to face charges.


niagararearend
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by niagararearend »

JohnDeere wrote:Part III is not a more "severe" charge, its simply a different way of charging you. The prosecutor can't give you a ticket with a set fine like a police officer, but they can use a part III summons to require you to come to court to face charges.
It's definitely a more severe offence. A part I can only carry a set fine below $500. A part III summons is something like wreckless driving with a fine more than $500, which also carries more points.

In any case, my original charge of 142.1 carries 2 demerit points, and the 139.1 charge carries 3 demerit points. I don't see how they will be able to change the charge since 139.1 carries more points and is technically a more sever charge.


Stanton
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by Stanton »

niagararearend wrote:
I also spoke to an RCMP who teaches police foundations at my wife's college, he said that they can not increase my charge, they can amend it to 139(1) which is the right charge, but they can not amend it to a more severe charge ie. part I to part III.
That’s somewhat correct. If they simply amend the certificate they’ll still be limited to the maximum fine allowed by a Part I offence notice. But keep in mind they could also simply withdraw the charge and later serve you with a Part III offence for the correct charge.
That’s a pretty big hypothetical though. Unless you caused a school bus full of children to explode I can’t imagine the Crown seeking anything more than the set fine.
niagararearend wrote:In any case, my original charge of 142.1 carries 2 demerit points, and the 139.1 charge carries 3 demerit points. I don't see how they will be able to change the charge since 139.1 carries more points and is technically a more sever charge.
The change in demerit points wouldn’t prevent the Crown from seeking an amendment. It’s not a jump to a truly serious charge like careless driving. The Courts will look at whether the change is reasonable and if you can still reasonably defend yourself.


JohnDeere
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by JohnDeere »

Yes, but they could charge you with speeding with a part iii if they felt it necessary. even if the set fine is below 500 dollars.


niagararearend
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by niagararearend »

Hello all,

So i'm going to trial in a couple of days!
I was hoping i could file an 11b but its only been about 7-8 months and i don't think it will qualify. oh well.... however, it is more than 6 months so they can not change the charge to a part III offence!

I will recount my story for the court:

I was in a private parking lot (quiznos) and was making a left turn onto the main road - no intersection.

It was a 2 way road, 2 lanes each, no center lane.

There was a car approaching in the far right lane of the direction i wanted to turn left onto and car behind it, no immediate car in the left lane i wanted to turn into.
I made the left turn (well ahead of the car that was in the right lane) and I can only speculate as I am not sure if the vehicle came out from behind the vehicle that was in the right lane or was just going at an excessive speed and i did not see it on my initial inspection of the road, but i was rear ended :cry: !
I was already in the lane and driving forward and i happened to look up and see the vehicle approaching fast, i hit the gas, signaled and attempted to change into the right lane (hence the damage only on the left side of my bumper and the right side of his vehicle) but i was too late.

I wasn't able to file the disclosure not being here for the past few months, so I'm going to go in early and see if I can get a look at it before the trial begins from the prosecutor.

....And then i'm just going to follow the advice of highwaystar:

"Just know that if there is NO evidence presented to the court regarding ALL the elements of the offence (e.g. change lanes) then when the prosecutor closes their case, you simply motion the court for a 'directed verdict'. That is---the prosecutor has failed to establish a case for you to meet (i.e. they didn't present some evidence on all the elements))."


And since it is the wrong charge listed on the ticket, they shouldn't be able to prove any of it.

the driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection - I wasn't turning left or right at an intersection
into a private road or driveway - I wasn't turning left or right into a private road or driveway, but i was turning from a private road/driveway
from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic - I wasn't changing lanes and didn't come from a lane of traffic, i was at a private road/driveway
to leave the roadway - I wasn't leaving the roadway
shall first see that the movement can be made in safety - I was already in forward motion in the lane
if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement - i had signaled left to come into the lane, but this doesn't seem relevant in my scenario


any other advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
wish me luck!

Thanks everyone for their input.


niagararearend
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by niagararearend »

oh how do i go about asking it to be dropped? i know thats a bit of a stupid question ... but i've never had to do this before!


argyll
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Re: Made a left, got rear ended ...

Unread post by argyll »

It should be pretty simple. Have a chat with the prosecutor before court starts, explain that it's the wrong charge and I can't see him going ahead with it. He should simply apply to the court to have the charge withdrawn.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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