Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

waddya_know
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Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by waddya_know »

Sometimes I find plain simple English not quite so simple:
Green arrow

(14) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing one or more green arrow indications only or in combination with a circular red or circular amber indication and facing the indication may proceed only to follow the direction shown by the arrow. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (14).
Exception – turn

(19) Despite subsection (18) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may,

(a) turn to the right; or

(b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street,

without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).
The way I understand subject to, this means that when I am at an intersection with traffic signals showing a green left-arrow and a red circle, I may not turn right under any circumstance.

Am I correct?

I only ask because I see people turning right in this circumstance all the time (which I know means nothing legally). I don't execute a turn myself in this scenario, and have had the guy behind me get all antsy...

Thanks for your input.


argyll
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Re: Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by argyll »

No. You may turn in the direction of a green arrow without stopping and you may also make certain turns after stopping.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


waddya_know
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Re: Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by waddya_know »

Thanks for the expert opinion!

Could you be so kind as to explain how I should interpret "subject to subsection (14)" in the text of subsection (19)?

I'm not trying to be a troll here, legitimately trying to learn something.


argyll
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Re: Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by argyll »

It's just saying that the 2 sections sort of talk about the same thing. It's like when the bible was only in Latin so people had to go to the clergy to have it explained; today we have lawyers who write in stupidity so we need to pay them lots of money to make sense of it.

Never overthink the wording in a law, it will make you insane !
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


iFly55
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Re: Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by iFly55 »

http://www.wheels.ca/news/advance-green ... rn-on-red/

@OP the wheels article describes the situation that respects "subject to subsection (14)".


waddya_know
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Re: Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

Unread post by waddya_know »

Thanks to all!

The summary of the cited article is that because the traffic signals are "lane-specific" (subsection (10)) the green arrow does not apply to those not in the left turn lane.

So, all is good and I can change my driving habits. [OK, I do admit to a bit of trolling when describing my driving habits in the original post :-)]

Even with this new information, I still don't fully understand the "subject to" clause, but as argyll points out, that's probably not possible without being a real lawyer.

Thanks again!


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