Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

picture removed....thanks SQUISHY....don't know why it stopped working!...see post below from Squishy

Is that last picture blocked for anyone else?

I tracked it down and copied it to my Photobucket for anyone else having troubles:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w236 ... mco101.jpg

The spotlight on the A-pillar kind of gives it away.

I dont think vehicles like this should be used.

Online you can buy those exact LED's that go in those cars.

If police vehicles were random you would have no idea whether its some prankster or an actual officer.

You can buy those light bars.

I like the OPP's policy. There cruisers stand out and you dont miss them.

The marked black and white crown vic with the reflective take marked OPP and the LED's on the roof are an icon on the highway. You always know if its an officer or to pull over or if he needs to pass in an emergency.

Sure you might be able to issue more tickets but then it would be hard to distinguish for a real officer.

That would be really bad if there was an accident he needed to get to and people didn't immediately realize that.

I must say those Tahoe's stand out really well to you dont miss them.

I like the LED's also you can see them REALLY far away.

I must say if there is any charge thats inexcusable it is failing to move over for an officer on the side of the road. There is no way you can miss a marked Vic with the LED's activated and not slow down or move over for it.

If people don't believe me i can find the link for those style of LED's. They have them for the grills of your car to. Anyone can buy them.

Atleast with a marked Vic or Tahoe with the Slim LED light bar you know its a real officer.

It's not that hard to re-create a normal cruiser, either. I used to work at a sign shop and I could make and apply all the decals for an "all-white" OPP cruiser in less than a day. The black-and-white would take a few days more for the spray paint to dry.

I think the stealth vehicles should be some model other than a standard cruiser. They may not be pursuit-rated, but it always takes me longer to recognise a stealth Grand Am or Malibu. The clueless ones will miss a fully dressed cruiser anyways., but the ones who break the law regularly and are always on the lookout for po-po seem to be pretty good at picking out stealth cruisers - mostly based on the vehicle model and the fact that they have steel wheels. Throw them a few curveballs with a stealthy Camry or Maxima. No one ever expects the foreign make to be a cop car.

Bear - on the subject of impersonating LEOs, and I know we're getting way off-track now, but if someone sees flashing lights and an indication to pull over at night, can they first turn on their 4-ways and then dial *OPP to confirm the officer's identity? Would the person at the other end be able to know anything if a service other than OPP is pulling the caller over?

But that may work for catching speeders but the OPP's job is not catching speeders. The public would not support that. They are there to show their presence on the highway. Alot of people seem to think it is a scam when they get pulled over by an unmarked car.

Their job is safety. When there is an accident or a incident on the road this is what officers are really important for.

For safety i think a marked cruiser is a better idea. It sends the message they are not out there to cheat you, or scam you, they are visible and so.

You always see those black and white cruisers, you always know when you see a real one and when to move over.

Sure squishy you could clone a police car but thats hard isnt it? You have to buy an interceptor infact with the cost what would the point be?

What i was saying is any dumb ass with a bit of money i am guessing less than 200 $ can go out and buy some LED's to impersonate an officer.

I am talking about some kid who would go buy them for his charger so he can race down the left lane and get everyone to move out of his way.

Most people wouldn't try to impersonate a marked vic. But any goof can buy police LED's online to impersonate an officer.

http://www.extremetacticaldynamics.com/

Here is what i mean thats only 90 $. Sounds not bad for someone who wants to have a couple kicks.

Now can you imagine trying to buy a police interceptor. Buying the forks, getting the OPP paint job. The exact LED top bar. All the rest. Sure its possible but who in their right mind would go through all that....

http://www.opp.ca/opp_001812.html

"Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) officers will soon be patrolling Ontario roadways and communities in the traditional black and white police car, adding greater visibility and instant recognition to OPP general duty and traffic patrol.

"We welcome the return of the traditional black and white cruisers," said Minister Kwinter. "Their enhanced visibility on Ontarios major highways will add significantly to the safe driving message we want to reinforce with the motoring public. We support the OPP and the important work police officers are doing to keep our communities safe," added Minister Kwinter.

"The black and white patrol vehicle will be instantly recognizable as an OPP patrol car and, with the new LED high visibility roof lights and vehicle markings, will have a greater impact on the visibility of OPP vehicles patrolling our communities and our roadways," added Commissioner Fantino.

"Officer and public safety are the primary concerns," said Commissioner Fantino."

More of those lights some goof could buy. > http://www.projectresponder.com/

Again its about safety. "Highway Safety Division." Its not like the CRA or something. The point is not to set up some system to give as many tickets as possible. This is why people rejected photo radar they didn't like it.

I think the OPP are very fair and are not trying to swindle people for their own good. Their policies are fair, they are very professional, visible on the road etc. The money from the tickets goes to local municipalities they receive no monetary purpose for issuing tickets.

All that i know is when i see a cruiser i know what it is and i move over asap. They all look the same their is no excuse. They are recognizable. They are an icon on our highways.

Just to show my point. The top led bars can be bought for around 500.

But some guy with a dodge charger and 50 $ could put a couple grill lights on his car for some kicks.

http://www.ledoutfitters.com/index.php? ... egory_id=9

tdrive2 wrote:

What i was saying is any dumb ass with a bit of money i am guessing less than 200 $ can go out and buy some LED's to impersonate an officer.

I am talking about some kid who would go buy them for his charger so he can race down the left lane and get everyone to move out of his way.

Most people wouldn't try to impersonate a marked vic. But any goof can buy police LED's online to impersonate an officer.

http://www.extremetacticaldynamics.com/

Here is what i mean thats only 90 $. Sounds not bad for someone who wants to have a couple kicks.

Now can you imagine trying to buy a police interceptor. Buying the forks, getting the OPP paint job. The exact LED top bar. All the rest. Sure its possible but who in their right mind would go through all that....

But the penalties here are criminal and much more severe than most of the stuff we deal with lol. Then you would have to park the car well out of sight, as wel if you were to attempt to paint it. I have no idea why people do it. The penalties can be enormous, especially if the court determines malice.

People do it to "stand out" at car shows. It's really quite pointless to me - along with blue or green turn signals. Seriously, WTF?

tdrive2 - yes cost is a lot more to duplicate a fully marked cruiser, but if you have that kind of cash, the time it takes is not a lot more. About four hours to create the graphics, an hour to plot them onto vinyl, two hours to apply them on the car, then maybe three hours to install a light bar and controller. Less than half a day and you are now in big trouble. Creating a stealth car would probably take four or five hours overall.

Also, stealth cars are not out there to cheat people; they're out there to keep them from cheating the law by slowing down at the sight of a cruiser. Just because they don't get caught does not mean they are not breaking the law. If they do get caught, then they cheated themselves out of their own money because they chose to speed.

Squishy wrote:

Bear - on the subject of impersonating LEOs, and I know we're getting way off-track now, but if someone sees flashing lights and an indication to pull over at night, can they first turn on their 4-ways and then dial *OPP to confirm the officer's identity? Would the person at the other end be able to know anything if a service other than OPP is pulling the caller over?

It is a very good point in this area or even at night with a non-roof bar cruiser.

If uncertain of the trueness of the cruiser without a roof bar. Slow down, move to the right, put on the 4 ways, call *677 (* OPP) or 911. Advise police dispatch of your location and YOUR licence plate...see below for reason.

**Do NOT try to outrun or accelerate to get away, we will take this as a pursuit and tire deflation devices will be setup**

The officer behind will call in your plate and that will be recorded on the computer, so every police service will know the plate has been checked by a legit officer. Dispatch can then tell you, YES that is an officer, so go ahead and stop.

If NOT legit, remain at slow speed, update dispatch of your location and the real police are on their way.

Squishy wrote:

People do it to "stand out" at car shows. It's really quite pointless to me - along with blue or green turn signals. Seriously, WTF? .

BTW....Both tickets on the highway!!

tdrive2 wrote:

Just to show my point. The top led bars can be bought for around 500.

But some guy with a dodge charger and 50 $ could put a couple grill lights on his car for some kicks.

http://www.ledoutfitters.com/index.php? ... egory_id=9

That $500 light bar is 24" wide.... lowest 48" bar is $650, that does not include other components to make it work.

LED one is $50 which could do the trick!

I have actually seen one guy try that with a $30 bicycle LED tail light that flashes......he was coming towards me one night.....so I did the right thing and pulled to the shoulder, waited until he went by, and then demonstrated how many lights my car had

tdrive2 wrote:

I dont think vehicles like this should be used..

I would like to see 90% of hwy units be unmarked. Not as a "trap".

But having driven fully marked billboard and then driving my own vehicle.....people become ANGELS once they see a marked cruiser.....few minutes later, back being a jackass. So the deterence for the 1km approaching and 1km away from the marked car did what?

Have you noticed a difference between OPP's all-white and black-and-white cruisers?

Sure you would be able to issue more tickets but some cars might not notice them like the marked vics.

When you see a marked vic it is clearly one and you get the hell out of the way.

Those lights bar on the roof can be seen from REALLY far away.

If there is an officer at the side of the road giving a ticket and he only has some light LED's on his grill i would be so upset if i got a ticket for not moving over that would not be fair.

Atleast with a marked cruiser you can tell, plus the light bar and the reflective decals on the car.

What if it was a random toyota camry at night on the side of the road with no light bars.

The OPP take that move over when an officer is on the side of the highway really seriously, i dont want to get a ticket for that.

And i sure as hell want to get out of the way if an officer has to race through traffic to get to an accident, i would certainly want to make sure i could tell if he was a real officer needing to get somewhere.

The light bars cost alot but that would defeat the purpose of a stealth car. The grill lights are cheap and i can see people using them. They are easy to hide to and can be quickly turned off i assume.

Imagine if people started using them and then people started to wonder if it was a real officer.

What if you had to go rescue someone at the side of the road and cars didn't believe you were a real officer? That could be quite a problem.

As far as trying to catch people plugging the left lane.

Thats not a hard one to figure out.

Especially on a 3 lane highway all an officer has to do is drive without his lights on and notice the flow of traffic all weird. If he can see miles of open road ahead but a trafifc jam in the left lane all he need to do is speed up and find the culrpit. Infact i have even a better solution for this.

Especially at night when an officer is parked on the shoulder using lidar most likely pointing at the front license plate he would easily be able to see that for some reason no cars pass then suddenly a convoy of a traffic jam in the left lane passes. These people are not hard to find they cause traffic backups. Same as tailgating it is hard to see an officer parked behind a bridge he can easily see.

Infact i have seen some officers so well hidden i almost crashed into one. I was getting off the highway and he was on the shoulder with a Marksman 20/20. He was about 2 feet from the painted line. I slammed on my breaks and almost freaked out. He was in unmarked car. I was driving my head lights arent the best i had no idea what it was and freaked out. Can you imagine if that was a transport with failed breaks or needed to pull over he wouldn't have even seen the guy until it was to late.

At least with the marked cruiser i would have seen the reflective decals. If your worried about catching speeders he would have got you before you saw him still since it was at night.

Also hwybear does the move over for an officer law apply to an officer who is at the side of the road waiting for someone or using lidar/radar?

Sometimes especially when doing lidar enforcement these guys are facing the oncoming traffic so that they can shoot your plate with it. At night especially in an unmarked car this is pretty hard to see until the last second. Can you get a ticket for not moving over? Or does that law only apply when the officer has his LED's on in which his car would be clearly visible to the oncoming traffic.

tdrive2 wrote:

Sure you would be able to issue more tickets but some cars might not notice them like the marked vics.

When you see a marked vic it is clearly one and you get the hell out of the way.

Those lights bar on the roof can be seen from REALLY far away.

If there is an officer at the side of the road giving a ticket and he only has some light LED's on his grill i would be so upset if i got a ticket for not moving over that would not be fair.

Atleast with a marked cruiser you can tell, plus the light bar and the reflective decals on the car.

What if it was a random toyota camry at night on the side of the road with no light bars.

The OPP take that move over when an officer is on the side of the highway really seriously, i dont want to get a ticket for that.

And i sure as hell want to get out of the way if an officer has to race through traffic to get to an accident, i would certainly want to make sure i could tell if he was a real officer needing to get somewhere.

With the lights on, I find I notice a stealth car just the same as a standard cruiser. I can also hear the sirens two or three blocks away and start moving to the right. If you miss a stealth cruiser with lights on, in my opinion you're not paying enough attention to your surroundings. Driver's ed - rearview mirror every five seconds.

tdrive2 wrote:

Infact i have seen some officers so well hidden i almost crashed into one. I was getting off the highway and he was on the shoulder with a Marksman 20/20. He was about 2 feet from the painted line. I slammed on my breaks and almost freaked out. He was in unmarked car. I was driving my head lights arent the best i had no idea what it was and freaked out. Can you imagine if that was a transport with failed breaks or needed to pull over he wouldn't have even seen the guy until it was to late.

No offense, but it doesn't sound like you were driving safely. I'm not attacking you personally, just offering some criticism. If you don't have time to react to objects coming into your field of view, then you are overdriving your headlights - slow down. Also, how old is your car? Halogens will dim over time and need replacing, even though they are not burned out.

tdrive2 wrote:

Also hwybear does the move over for an officer law apply to an officer who is at the side of the road waiting for someone or using lidar/radar?

Sometimes especially when doing lidar enforcement these guys are facing the oncoming traffic so that they can shoot your plate with it. At night especially in an unmarked car this is pretty hard to see until the last second. Can you get a ticket for not moving over? Or does that law only apply when the officer has his LED's on in which his car would be clearly visible to the oncoming traffic.

You only need to move over if the emergency vehicle has its lights on (which means you wouldn't be ticketed for that stealth Camry you mentioned above). However, it is a good idea to move over for any vehicle on the shoulder if it can be done without causing much disruption in the lane next to you. A driver might need some extra space to change a tire, or a truck might need it to open the door. Sometimes a tow truck needs to position itself by driving partly onto the roadway.

It can be hard to move over with heavy traffic (GTA).

As regards to me driving dangerously, if that was the case the officer inside the car with the lidar unit would have pulled me over for speeding. I was slowing down and pulling to the right to get off at my exit and was quite shocked.

Secondly with the sirens anyone playing music in their car or on a phone would not hear them until they got close.

The current stealth cars are easy to spot. Black steel wheels, usually vics, plain colours, tinted windows, extra antenas. This is quite obvious and is easy to pull over.

But as to regards with totally random stock vehicles this is a different story.

With the current OPP stealth cruisers they are harder to see but when you get close enough you can tell and move over. If you want to use different random cars that look like stock vehicles with no light bars this can be a much harder task. especially if the lights were lets say mounted on the grill of the car only.

Squishy wrote:

Have you noticed a difference between OPP's all-white and black-and-white cruisers?

I find the most noticeable difference is the blue lights on cruisers and reaction time with drivers. I believe it is b/c blue is known world wide for police and that C'dn TV is swamped with american television that show police shows with blue lights.

I find US drivers much more compliant and reactive to the B&W car as that is what they are used to seeing.

Stationary radar and moving, more people slow down faster with the white car. B&W seems to blend in more with all other dark vehicles, park cross-ways I think the B&W also blends in more as the side is broken up with the 2 tone paint, where all white is a bigger object.

Winter months the B&W is safer people see the front, back, side easier contrasting against the snow. Night time it reflects really well, same as the white.

Guess the bottom line is that the blue/red LED lighting makes the most impact of all!

tdrive2 wrote:

Sure you would be able to issue more tickets but some cars might not notice them like the marked vics.

do not care about tickets, it would be the "agressive drivers" you all complain about that would get the "hammer"

If there is an officer at the side of the road giving a ticket and he only has some light LED's on his grill i would be so upset if i got a ticket for not moving over that would not be fair.

If you see the "grill" lights....oh boy...you are looking in your rear view mirror my friend

What if you had to go rescue someone at the side of the road and cars didn't believe you were a real officer? That could be quite a problem.

It is not a matter of believing it is an officer, flashing red lights, flashing red/blue move out of the way. A lot supervisors of fire, EMS and police have unmarked vehicles as they respond from home at all hours

If you don't know that these are emergency vehicles, someone has issues and should not be on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lV8sjXGyF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0B5y99 ... re=related

Also hwybear does the move over for an officer law apply to an officer who is at the side of the road waiting for someone or using lidar/radar?

Move over law is only in effect when the lights are activated....so that lidar picture I have posted ...no requirement by law to move over.......common courtesy and safe driving practices would be to move over.