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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:38 am 
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Missed that. IMO though you do need the court decisions. He was charged under a specific section of the HTA not a section under the regulations. And that section of the Reg actually contradicts itself anyway. Therefor you do need the courts input at some point.


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Hello all,

So I have received the trial date (October 3), as well as disclosure. I had hoped that the officer was somehow negligent in his notes, however everything is there. At this point, it doesn't like I'll be able to get both dropped, so I'm looking to get the DMV charge dropped, and maybe a reduced fin on the speeding. What would be the best way to go about that?

Some more information: included in the disclosure package they emailed me was a deal the prosecutor wrote down - a reduction to speeding 129 in a 100 (as opposed to the original 140) if I
also take the DMV. The notes for the DMV ticket were as follows:

"While searching for his insurance I obs permit for vehicle expired Dec 2015. I obs driver pull out permit sticker. I said I will save you some money+you can put the sticker on the back of the permit. He scowled at me said "whatever" + then put sticker back into arm rest."

A note about this - the officer did indeed say he would save me some money - he gestured and pointed to the sticker and did mention putting it on the permit. I had a complete brain fart and had no idea what he was talking about, so I said "what about it? (in regards to the sticker)" at which point he must have gotten frustrated and left back to the cruiser.

Thank you all in advance.


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:57 pm 
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not sure if this helps

I used the new system for renewal. I did it on-line worked great.

I printed the receipt.

It explains clearly where to put the sticker on plate.
Nothing about the other sticker.

Not sure if no direction is a help.

The kit did have full directions but the other stickers could be confusing.

Cheers
Viper1

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:05 pm 
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viper1 wrote:
not sure if this helps

I used the new system for renewal. I did it on-line worked great.

I printed the receipt.

It explains clearly where to put the sticker on plate.
Nothing about the other sticker.

Not sure if no direction is a help.

The kit did have full directions but the other stickers could be confusing.

Cheers
Viper1


Thanks for the input. I'll keep that in mind.

Anyone else have input?


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:06 pm 
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I would call your insurance company and ask them if a 40 over speeding ticket is considered a Minor or a Major infraction. If it is still considered a Minor, then you would be better to take both to trial and fight them. There is no requirement to have a sticker on the back of the ownership (only on the plate), so this charge should get dropped, or you should be able to win by asking them where it says you need sticker on the ownership. If the 40 over speeding is only a minor for insurance purposes, and you win the sticker one, then you will only have one MINOR infraction on your insurance.

Now if the 40 over is considered a Major infraction by insurance you have to decide if (1) you want to fight the sticker charge (should get dropped) but then end up with one MAJOR against your insurance, or (2) take the lower 129 speeding charge which is only a minor but also plead guilty to the sticker charge for another minor ... So two minors is probably better than one minor.

You could also ask insurance how 1 minor affects your rates, how 2 minors affects your rates, and how 1 major affects your rates so you can compare.

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:53 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
I would call your insurance company and ask them if a 40 over speeding ticket is considered a Minor or a Major infraction. If it is still considered a Minor, then you would be better to take both to trial and fight them. There is no requirement to have a sticker on the back of the ownership (only on the plate), so this charge should get dropped, or you should be able to win by asking them where it says you need sticker on the ownership. If the 40 over speeding is only a minor for insurance purposes, and you win the sticker one, then you will only have one MINOR infraction on your insurance.

Now if the 40 over is considered a Major infraction by insurance you have to decide if (1) you want to fight the sticker charge (should get dropped) but then end up with one MAJOR against your insurance, or (2) take the lower 129 speeding charge which is only a minor but also plead guilty to the sticker charge for another minor ... So two minors is probably better than one minor.

You could also ask insurance how 1 minor affects your rates, how 2 minors affects your rates, and how 1 major affects your rates so you can compare.


Hey jhserk,

Thanks for the reply. 40 over is still considered a minor.

At this point, I don't want to go to court because I'll be starting a new job at that time. Is there any way I can meet the prosecutor and get him to drop the sticker charge (bonus would be also reducing to 129 but I doubt it)? I mentioned previously that I did have the sticker, I just didn't put it on. Could I bring that document to them?


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:41 pm 
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You can bring all your stuff and maybe the prosecutor might drop it. But they do not have to. But it never hurts to ask. Start by showing everything and then ask them to drop it and you will plead guilty to 29 over. If that does not work ask them to drop it and you will plead guilty to 40 over. If still does not work, then say you want to take both to trial as the sticker one is not valid.

See if you can search these forums as there are a couple posts about the sticker thing... you will need to get the section number and regulation and case law to show prosecutor that you know what the law says so if they want to push it you can beat them.

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:04 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
You can bring all your stuff and maybe the prosecutor might drop it. But they do not have to. But it never hurts to ask. Start by showing everything and then ask them to drop it and you will plead guilty to 29 over. If that does not work ask them to drop it and you will plead guilty to 40 over. If still does not work, then say you want to take both to trial as the sticker one is not valid.

See if you can search these forums as there are a couple posts about the sticker thing... you will need to get the section number and regulation and case law to show prosecutor that you know what the law says so if they want to push it you can beat them.


Hi jsherk,

When you say bring your stuff, do you mean on the court date?

I've attached a copy of the form emailed to me by the office. From this, it seems that no matter what, I still have to appear in court, even if I accept a reduced plea, correct? Is there any way that I can just phone/mail something to the prosecutor, or even meet with them before the court date (kind of like an early resolution meeting) and settle this without actually going to court on that date? I am very doubtful I will be able to get that day off.


Attachments:
disclosure.jpg
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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Yes I was saying take everything to court with you. But you can call and ask if the prosecutor will meet with you before the trial date. They might say yes, they might say no. Otherwise you need to attend on the trial date.

If you can not attend the trial date, then you should send a letter to both the provincial offences office and to the prosecutor and state that you can not attend on that date because of XYZ and would like another trial date. It would be best to offer some dates over the next 6 months that you can attend (they should be on the same day of the week as the current trial date is set) so they can pick one that will work for you.

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:43 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Yes I was saying take everything to court with you. But you can call and ask if the prosecutor will meet with you before the trial date. They might say yes, they might say no. Otherwise you need to attend on the trial date.

If you can not attend the trial date, then you should send a letter to both the provincial offences office and to the prosecutor and state that you can not attend on that date because of XYZ and would like another trial date. It would be best to offer some dates over the next 6 months that you can attend (they should be on the same day of the week as the current trial date is set) so they can pick one that will work for you.


Ah, I see. Since the prosecutor themself didn't have a phone number, I assume I'll just call the office and say "Hello, I would like to schedule a meeting with Prosecutor XXXX...." something like that? I'm lost as to what to say actually. Or do I ask to speak with the Prosecutor over the phone personally, then ask for a meeting then?


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:03 pm 
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Yes just call and tell them you want to meet with prosecutor before trial. They will tell you how to go about it.

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:33 pm 
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That's pretty harsh. I would have expected an offer of +29 and the other is dropped.

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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Insurance wise you'd be better off taking the +40 if they'd drop the other. It's not the fine that matters but the insurance hike.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:59 am 
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Wow, I can't believe that is the deal you got. I think if you go to court that day, they might let you plea to the 129, and drop the permit if you show it, but it's the luck of the draw. Just go in nicely and say you will plead guilty to the plea if they drop the permit charge. If they're having a good day, they might.


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Re: 2 tickets on 401: speeding and permit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Thank you everybody for the replies. At this point, it seems I just have to wait until the court date of October 5th, and hope for the best!


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