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Bel, do I feel an extreme hate, or do you just have a fixation with this???

Reflections wrote:Bel, do I feel an extreme hate, or do you just have a fixation with this???

LOL

Extreme Hate, I was threatend with this charge on my motorcycle along with 3 others, when we had absolutely done nothing wrong!

Quite the scare it was!

BelSlySTi wrote:

Reflections wrote:Bel, do I feel an extreme hate, or do you just have a fixation with this???

LOL

Extreme Hate, I was threatend with this charge on my motorcycle along with 3 others, when we had absolutely done nothing wrong!

Quite the scare it was!

Or it might be OCD (I have it, just not for 172 purposes )

hwybear wrote:

BelSlySTi wrote:

Reflections wrote:Bel, do I feel an extreme hate, or do you just have a fixation with this???

LOL

Extreme Hate, I was threatend with this charge on my motorcycle along with 3 others, when we had absolutely done nothing wrong!

Quite the scare it was!

Or it might be OCD (I have it, just not for 172 purposes )

I don't have Oppressive Copper Disorder,I am not a Copper or perhaps you mean Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? I wll ask my therapist about that at my next session!

Keep raging Bel! That's how MADD (the real one) got started. Mother's who wouldn't take it anymore. There's a good OP ed in the Star about Fantino and the OPP forgetting the lessons of Ipperwash.When you give more powers to the police, they have to earn it and they have to demonstrate that they can use it responsibly. So far, there's only a 33% conviction rate. Things that make you go hmmm.

ticketcombat wrote:Keep raging Bell!

I will trust me, I am Obsessed with it

I dropped some t-shirts off for the guy who started the petition this weekend, and it was nice to learn that there is many more then 2 Charter Challenges regarding 172!

There is going to be a 3 part series on Global in the near future, I will post here when I know dates and times!

I write letters to all these politicians and a few media outlets, every time something is published regarding HTA 172 and you should do the same!

Hon Dalton McGuinty

dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

Rm 281, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A4

Tel 416-325-1941

Fax 416-325-3745

Hon James J. Bradley

jbradley.mpp@liberal.ola.org

Ministry of Transportation

77 Wellesley St W, 3rd Flr, Ferguson Block

Toronto ON M7A 1Z8

Tel 416-235-4686

Toll Free 1-800-268-4686

Hon Rick Bartolucci

rbartolucci.mpp@liberal.ola.org

Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services

25 Grosvenor St,18th Flr

Toronto ON M7A 1Y6

Tel 416-325-0408

Fax 416-325-6067

Toll Free 1-866-517-0571

Hon George Smitherman

gsmitherman.mpp@liberal.ola.org

Minister of Energy and Infrastructure

Deputy Premier

514 Parliament St., Ground Flr.

Toronto ON M4X 1P4

Tel 416-972-7683

Fax 416-972-7686

Opposition Critics

Gilles Bisson (Transportation)

New Democratic Party of Ontario

GBisson@ndp.on.ca

Queen's Park

Rm 157, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A5

Tel: 416-325-7122

Fax: 416-325-7111

Frank Klees, MPP (Public Infrastructure Renewal Critic, Transportation)

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario

frank.klees@pc.ola.org

Queen's Park

Rm 447, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A8

Tel 416-325-7316

Fax 416-325-1573

Peter Kormos (Justice; Community Safety and Correctional Services)

New Democratic Party of Ontario

pkormos-qp@ndp.on.ca

Queen's Park

Rm 115, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A5

Tel: 416-325-7106

Garfield Dunlop, MPP (Community Safety and Correctional Services)

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario

garfield.dunlop@pc.ola.org

Queen's Park

Rm 425, Main Legislative Building, Queen's Park

Toronto ON M7A 1A2

Tel 416-325-3855

Fax 416-325-9035

Rosario Marchese (Public Infrastructure Renewal)

New Democratic Party of Ontario

rmarchese-co@ndp.on.ca

Queen's Park

Rm 116, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A5

Tel: 416-325-9092

Fax: 416-325-4976

Tim Hudak, MPP (Public Infrastructure Renewal)

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario

tim.hudakco@pc.ola.org

Queen's Park

Rm 416, Main Legislative Building

Toronto ON M7A 1A8

Tel 416-325-8454

Fax 416-325-0998

Any of the regular posters on OHTA who would like one of these T-shirts

Kindly send me a pm with your info, Supply is limited

Yes Hwybear, you can have one too

BelSlySTi wrote:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//ind ... opic=11781

This post sums up my thoughts on the subject PERFECTLY. It's the letter I would have written if I was just a tad more articulate.

As I think "TC" mentioned we will agree to disagree......but to petition the 50 over part is looney to say the least.........other than EMS, fire or police or the odd exception of other professions going to stop dangers to the public (gas, electrical)....there is absolutely no reason for someone to be 50km over any speed limit. Hell, I don't even drive 20 over when I'm working unless I'm trying to catch a violator OR responding to a priority call.

I would rather think the petition should be reworded and changed to just have only the vehicle impoundment be removed, this would be more palateable to everyone.

This would then be identical to the 90 day ADLS (licence suspended, vehicle not impounded).

Sorry Hwybear I disagree with your 90 day licence suspension

I do think if you do over 50 the PSL, you should have to pay the piper, only after your day in court and not on the roadside, and if I am not mistaken there were laws in place for this type of offence prior to BILL 203, just a wild uneducated guess, but there was little or no CASH was being forked out!

This so called law is going to cost the Ontario Taxpayer alot more then what has been raked in off the 11,000 that have been charged, yes that was 11,000, who would of thought we had so many "Damn Street Racers"cruising our highways and public roads!

It's coming to an end, I won't stop when that happens!

BelSlySTi wrote:Sorry Hwybear I disagree with your 90 day licence suspension

Hope you missing what I meant.

I meant keep the 7 day suspension in effect and no vehicle impoundment......similiar to the ADLS program where you get a 90 day suspension and no vehicle impoundment.

Clarification ss that MOST are NOT being charged with street racing, they are being Charged with performing a stunt!

I will note on a benefit of the program that I have noticed less people "high miling". From going from 1-5 charges every 4 shifts for 50 km over.....I think I have 4 or 5 for the whole year.

*******************************************

Some keep forgetting a big thing as well...HTA 31 Driving a Privilege.

IMO it does not violate any charter by suspending a drivers licence, if the person still wants to "excercise their freedom of movement" they can do just that "excercise" by way of their "boots were made for walking".

************************************

Since your in the know...what are the Charter challenges about...Coles notes version?

That petition number is also false at 6148 signatures Without looking too hard many have signed it more than once. Not like trying to "pad" the total to make it sound good......anyone can pad stats....watch this.....

Ontario has about 12 million people. Say even 1/12th has a driver's licence....1 million people. Those 1million drive an average of 200 days a year = 200 million times a vehicle is on the road.

200 million and even if 20,000 people get charged for devil section 172,

that is only 0.1% of the motorists being charged, certainly the extreme drivers!

Even if the 1 million only drove once a year and 20,000 charged that is still only 2% far cry from the majority of drivers.

The law it's self is the problem. Guilty without a chance to prove innocence. The same piece of paper that provides for us making laws in this country is the same piece of paper that allows us to choose those who enforce it. If the charter says we have the right to trial before finding of guilt and the charter says we can make the laws, politicians that is, how can we make a law that overrides the charter. It is a vicious circle but ultimately the charter wins.

And a 33% conviction rate????? Makes me wonder???

The Petition will be cleaned up in the next few days!

No I don't think there should even be the 7 day suspension, even though some in my opinion deserve that and much more!

I won't dispute that driving is a privilage that some people take for granted!

Anyway you look at it, anyone who resides or visits Canada has the same rights,and those rights can't be violated on the side of the road on a officers observations, like every other human being they make mistakes too, and no person should have to pay for their mistakes with any sort of up front penalties!

With the poor conviction rate concerning HTA 172 its obvious Innocent people are being charged and paying dearly for it!

A post from blueline that says it all!

They have a very difficult job down there even without having to worry about losing your job if you are accused of misconduct before it is even proven.

I don't have access to a Canadian Dictionary, and some may say that's obvious , if anyone could post up the deffinition of STUNT and RACING it would be appreciated

Definitions or what makes a stunt vs race has been mentioned on here before.

It is HTA OREG 455/07 (if this link works)

http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/i ... s&context=

Conviction rate is construed to whomever wants it to be.

33% - that is those convicted under 172

Rather than take the "big hit" of a fine and demerit points a lot of people have pled just to the speed or unsafe lane change etc.....so it is there choice to still be found guilty of a lessor offence, rather than face the big one.

What is the actual % of those that left with absolutely nothing?