What does this mean?

inbini
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What does this mean?

Unread post by inbini on

Hello There

Here is the situation.

I was going southbound on 427 and exited at Queensway (Toronto). I needed to make a right turn and it is no right turn on red. So I stop on red light. There were 3 cars in front of me. I get the green arrow pointing right. So the cars turn right and when I was turning the green arrows just turned off. There was no amber. It just turned off. So I get pulled over and get a ticket.

The ticket says "Proceed contrary to sign at intersection". It does not indicate any clause #. I spoke with the officer about the green arrow turning off without amber and he agreed. He said "if I get called to the court, I will explain what you said today".

So my question is what offense is this? Failing to stop on red light? Illegal right turn? I asked him if any points were involved with this offense and he said he had no idea.

Today I checked all green arrows on the way home and all of them have amber. I am going to exercise my rights and fight this. Any thoughts or ideas will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million!!!


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racer
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Unread post by racer on

No clause number? Then it can be viewed as incorrectly filled-out ticket. Anyone else on this?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

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Reflections
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Unread post by Reflections on

Agreed. No section number, no ticky, no laundry.........NEXT.
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Unread post by OTTLegal on

The ticket the officer gave you is under 144.9 of the Highway Traffic Act and has 2 demerit points on it. If you pay the ticket it will go on your driving record for 3 years to which your insurance company has access to and can base your insurance rates on.

Your insurance company bases your insurance rates upon many factors, but you driving record is one of the most important. If you have a driving record with convictions for traffic tickets your insurance company is going to perceive the risk of insuring you is higher, and increase your insurance rates.
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal


inbini
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Unread post by inbini on

Hello

So I am getting mixed responses. I do think that the ticket is INVALID if it does not indicate a section number. The ticket doesn't even say the chapter number (like 144). It just says H.T.A in the "contrary to:" section and nothing in the "sect" section.

I am going to schedule a court date and use this as my stance. But anyone out there know how I can present this at the court? Can I just indicate to them that there is no section number and it will be withdrawn?

I need your expertise. Thanks!!!


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Unread post by racer on

No, they'll amend it. Or try to.

You may choose not to respond to the ticket altogether. It is then Justice's job to review the ticket, and have it quashed due to a fatal error. More on that here: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1615.html

"No section" has been listed, and the only cops on board did not disprove it, while commenting on the thread :lol:
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


inbini
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Unread post by inbini on

Well... I will need to hear from bear himself. LOL

The thing is even if they try to amend it, i think I have a valid argument here.

S/B on 427 exiting right to Queensway, there is a "no right turn on red sign". I know because I live in the area. I always stop. This time the light was different. Usually, when I get the green arrow pointing right, the light at the top is green as well. (so cars on the other lanes can go straight and I can turn right) This time the top was red (middle blank) and the bottom with a green arrow pointing right.

Here is another funny thing. The green arrow actually turned OFF when i was making a right. THERE WAS NO AMBER. That is why the officer pulled me over. I explained to him that there was no amber. Should there have been an amber, I would observe and made the turn. This time it just turned off and I made the turn because stopping in the middle of an intersection was not safe.

The officer said he saw 3 cars in front of me and I made a turn when the green arrow disappeared (top red, middle blank, bottom blank). HOW CAN A RIGHT TURN LIGHT TURN ON JUST LONG ENOUGH FOR 3 CARS?? Also, there was no amber. Weird.

I guess I have two options here. I need your expertise guys. What should I do?

1. Do not respond to the ticket and argue that the ticket was invalid (no charter or section number)
2. Schedule trial and see if the cop shows up, if he does and make a case about NO AMBER and the officers words of observing only 3 cars turning before the light turned off? (The officer said he will mention this when he is called to the court)

Please HELP~~ Anyone?!? :roll:


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Unread post by Reflections on

inbini wrote:S/B on 427 exiting right to Queensway, there is a "no right turn on red sign". I know because I live in the area. I always stop. This time the light was different. Usually, when I get the green arrow pointing right, the light at the top is green as well. (so cars on the other lanes can go straight and I can turn right) This time the top was red (middle blank) and the bottom with a green arrow pointing right.
If you go to trial, take a photo of the light with you. Green arrows mean you have the right of way.




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