Help with a ticket please!

Tusker
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Help with a ticket please!

by: Tusker on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:35 pm

I was sitting at an intersection behind a beige pickup truck. Both the truck and I were past the line when the light changed from amber to red. The truck got through on the amber light, I on the other hand proceeded through on a red light. I couldn't just sit in the intersection and get hit by oncoming traffic.

A police car, obviously behind me somewhere? turned on his lights after I got through the intersection. I really did not know that his lights were meant for me.

I received a ticket for going through a red light. When I told the cop I was stopped because of the truck in front of me, he told me he was not looking at a truck he was ticketing me.

I want to plead not guilty and appear in court to fight the ticket.

Good idea or bad?


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by: Radar Identified on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:51 pm

If I'm understanding you correctly, you were ticketed for Red Light - Fail to Stop, section 144 ( 18 ) of the Highway Traffic Act, right?

If so, you've been charged under the wrong section. You could have been charged with failing to clear the intersection or something else, but red light - fail to stop is only if you enter the intersection after the light is red, not if you are in the intersection as the light turns red.

Let us know what you were specifically charged with and we'll try to help.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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by: Tusker on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:15 pm

The ticket says Red Light - Fail to stop.

But when I entered the intersection the light was still green. The pickup in front of me stopped during the green light. It proceeded to drive once the light had turned amber. I was left sitting in the middle of the intersection on a red light with no way to back up. I had no choice but to continue through on the red light.

The officer was not at all interested in the fact that I had no where to go. He said he was only interested in what he saw me doing in my car and was only ticketing me.

Thank you for any help you can give me!


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by: Radar Identified on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:42 pm

You can beat this ticket. The officer charged you with the wrong offence.

To get started, photocopy the ticket, then send in the ticket requesting a trial and check off "officer present." Make your own notes of the incident, maybe even re-visit the scene to help refresh your memory. You will then get a court date in the mail. When that happens, file a disclosure request, which will allow you to get the evidence against you. This website has some guidance:

www.ticketcombat.com

There is a sample disclosure form on there. However, don't just copy it and use it - it's a generic form. The things you want to ask for in this case are a full copy of the officer's notes, and any photographic or video evidence if it exists. What will likely come back are just a copy of the notes, which is fine.

To convict you in this case, the officer will need to testify as follows:

- Observed a red signal facing traffic
- Noted motor vehicle (yours) ENTER intersection after the red signal
- Stopped vehicle without sight lost and identified the driver

But that's not what happened. You entered on a green light. That's not red light - fail to stop. Don't tell the Crown or the officer that you've been incorrectly charged, because they have up to 6 months to issue a new charge. If it does go to trial, what you want to do is get the officer to testify that you entered the intersection on a green. Then, you can point to the appropriate parts of section 144 of the HTA (dealing with red light and, specifically, where to stop) and say that the Crown appears to be describing the elements of a different charge. At that point you can say that the testimony of the officer indicates that you did not commit the offence as charged and ask for a dismissal.

That's what I would do, anyway. Keep us posted...
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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by: Tusker on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:47 pm

Thank you so much for this information. I will keep you posted. You've just made 2009 not quite so crappy afterall. :lol:


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by: hwybear on
Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:46 pm

Radar Identified wrote:
Then, you can point to the appropriate parts of section 144 of the HTA (dealing with red light and, specifically, where to stop) and say that the Crown appears to be describing the elements of a different charge. At that point you can say that the testimony of the officer indicates that you did not commit the offence as charged and ask for a dismissal.
All this is for the "summary" part at end of trial.

FYI
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: Radar Identified on
Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:27 pm

hwybear wrote:All this is for the "summary" part at end of trial.
Good point.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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by: beleafer81 on
Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:47 pm

Totaly agree with everyone above as far as it being the wrong ticket issued.

However I thought there was something in the law about turning left that only one vehicle could be in the intersection at a time. So if the truck was in the intersection waiting for it to be clear to turn left the OP shouldn't have been in the intersection at all.

Just curious...


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by: Radar Identified on
Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:20 pm

beleafer81 wrote:However I thought there was something in the law about turning left that only one vehicle could be in the intersection at a time.
Some municipalities may have passed by-laws to that effect, but cities like Toronto, Ottawa, Mississauga, Hamilton, etc., aren't on that list.

There's no specific number of vehicles that may enter the intersection for the purpose of turning in the HTA. The only stipulation is that when you enter the intersection, traffic must be moving such that it is reasonable for you to think that you can clear the intersection before the light changes to red, if the municipality has passed a by-law to that effect (section 145 of the HTA).
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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