Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

I was on my way home Wednesday March 24, 2010 coming from Burlington going to Hamilton on the QEW Niagara. I was pulled over at the bottom of the Skyway Bridge (in Hamilton) at around 11:50 pm. The OPP officer said I was going 160km/h in a 100km/h zone.

I was driving my father's 1999 Ford Winstar and I have a G2 License. I am an 18 year old male currently in university and I work as a lifeguard, swim instructor and lifesaving instructor (teaching first aid and CPR). This is my third year of driving and my first ever roadside stop, and traffic offense.

The officer did not show me the radar that I was going that speed (I know it doesn't mean much but I thought I'd add that anyways), The officer took my license and suspended it for seven (7) days and had my father's vehicle impounded for seven (7) days. I was given two (2) summons to court. For: Speeding over 50km/h and Stunt Racing.

The officer stated that he had seen me speeding in Burlington prior to going on the skyway bridge and yet I was pulled over after getting off the bridge and my roadside stop was in Hamilton. Yet my summons to court is scheduled to be in Burlington. This I found to be very confusing... Yet he did say I was completely cooperative in the matter and was calm and respectful. (Will this help me at all?)

I am most definitly considering legal counsel and representation from a paralegal (one of those X-copper guys). I am fully aware of the consequences that this brings.

Does anyone have an idea of what will happen? This is my first traffic offense and there are two summons. What does that mean? Will one of them be dropped?

Does anyone have any advice on the subject?

Thank you for your time

While the Raham decision was still being argued/decided, Officers wrote both speeding and stunt in case it was ruled unconstitutional. This way if it was decided unconstitutional (which it was not) then they could fall back on the speeding charge-otherwise you would walk off with nothing. Likely the speeding will be tossed since its part of the stunt charge.

As far as where he stopped you it really doesn't matter. A lot of where your stopped has to do with Officer safety. No one wants to block a lane of traffic on a bridge at night.

Speeding charges are tough to beat and damned near impossible with a seasoned Officer-depending on what he used to confirm your speed. Either way its a serious charge especially for a G2 driver like yourself. Another alternative is to try and plea. A great deal would be 49km/h over.

Speeding is difficult to beat. If they want an easy conviciton, they'll drop stunt and go for speeding 60 km/h over (s. 128). Depending on what the officer observed (disclosure will tell more), the stunt charge could be beaten without too much effort, now that the Ontario Court of Appeal has clarified exactly how strict liability will be applied to stunt driving where the charge is speeding 50 km/h over the limit. That would likely require the assistance of a legal professional (paralegal, lawyer).

If you choose not to hire professional help, I'd agree with cruzmisl, go for the plea bargain.

I'd still recommend a paralegal/lawyer for a case like this. The consequences of losing, or not getting a plea-bargain right, are very serious.

i definitly am going to go for legal help and get a plea bargain if i can

anyone know how much a paralegal would cost? my court date is May 18, 2010

and if i get the speeding charge instead of stunt driving how much of a fine am i looking at?

if i explain to the judge that i am going through financial hardship and other reasons would that help in determining how much i have to pay out?

i know this is definitly going to hurt me money wise

Paralegal... don't know what their rates are, they vary. There's a form to fill out at the bottom of the page for a no-obligation quote, if you'd like.

Speeding 49 km/h over would be less than a $500 fine. I don't have my fine/surcharge table in front of me so I can't say for sure.

No matter what, though, the Justice of the Peace can reduce your fine, even below the minimum, if you can show financial hardship and regret your actions, etc. Your paralegal/lawyer would be able to help with that. Some people convicted of stunt driving for speeding more than 50 km/h over the limit have paid as little as $45 in fines. You'd probably pay more, but it has gone that low. Keep the receipt for the tow/impound charges.

Ok so I finally got an xcopper and turns out the police officer didn't use a radar gun to determine my speed

will this help me at all?

How did he measure your alleged speed then? Pacing?

yea pacing

so now what? is that any help to me?

Pacing is a perfectly acceptable way for an officer to measure your speed, assuming the did it correctly. They need to have followed you for an (approximately) measured distance while maintaining a constant following distance and observing their own speedometer. If this is what the officer did then the fact that they didn't use a radar or laser to measure your speed is irrelevant.

how long of a distance and how else could he have been doing this correctly?

There is no specified distance for pacing.

The approved ways to measure speed are with a radar, laser, pacing, or aircraft. I think that's it...

alright so i hired one of those xcoppers to go to court on my behalf and he asked for disclosure of evidence and the court date moved to June 22

what now?

Wait for disclosure...

June 22 buys a bit of time, but my guess is that the disclosure will merely confirm that you're done for.

At least you won't have to worry that you didn't take it seriously later?

alright so i got my disclosure and i noticed an error in it. The police statements say they observed a silver van motor vehicle at a very high rate of speed. However i was driving a green vehicle its green and always has been green. The vehicle registration even says my vehicle is green.

Will this help me at all?

It might cast doubt on the accuracy of the officer's evidence, if you can suggest that it was not your vehicle he say. However if he says that he saw your vehicle, measured its speed, then stopped you without losing sight of the vehicle, the discrepancy may be chalked up to just a mistake, not affecting the accuracy of his evidence. These things are always on a case by case basis.

JayEmSee wrote:

alright so i got my disclosure and i noticed an error in it. The police statements say they observed a silver van motor vehicle at a very high rate of speed. However i was driving a green vehicle its green and always has been green. The vehicle registration even says my vehicle is green.

Will this help me at all?

It should help to raise a reasonable doubt.

The officer will most likely state that he/she paced your vehicle for a certain distance -let's say, maybe about 2 km.

You could argue that if that distance is good enough for pacing, it should be good enough for the proper identification of the paced vehicle, which is an essential element of the offence.

If identification fails, the offence has not been made and the charge should be dismissed.

An important element for the charge is tracking history. Was tracking history based on a silver van? If so, the officer does not have one for yours, does he/she?.

However,

Simon Borys wrote:

...the discrepancy may be chalked up to just a mistake, not affecting the accuracy of his evidence. These things are always on a case by case basis.

I think it will depend on the JP.

Is June 22 'to be spoken to/to set a date' or for trial?

What is your agent's (xcopper) opinion?

Cheers.

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I'd like to hear the outcome of this one.

Hey guys long time no talk but here is what happened with my situation.

Well my legal representation went to court for me in June/July and offered me a deal. The deal was they bring it down to 49km/h over and only 4 demerit points and a total fine of $423. So I didn't want to risk it at all so I took the deal.

Altogether, getting my license back, my dad's car out of the impound lot, the fees to my paralegal and the actual fine everything came to a total of around $2,000. I have until November to pay the actual fine but its all done and taken care of. I borrowed money from my parents to pay it off and then I paid them back with my paychecks at work. So that's what happened to me.

I guess I got the deal because it was my very first driving offense ever! On the good side I got my full G license in the summer, and had a fun filled vacation in Ottawa and New York City.

My advice to you is "Don't F@#% up" Drive safe and if you're going to speed (which I highly recommend you don't), keep it under 50 over for sure!! As far as what to do if you're caught going 50 over, well I'm not sure. I guess I would say first of all start saving your money and sell anything that you don't need or don't use. You'll have to financially prepare for the worst. For me I sold a drum set that was just sitting in my closet to help me pay for everything and a couple guitars I had. Secondly, get a good paralegal or one of those xcopper guys. They really do help and I got my money's worth. It could have been worse. I could have ended up with 6 demerit points and a really huge fine. Thirdly, take it easy. It's not the end of the world. I remember freaking out so badly right after everything had happened but relax if you can find the money and save it and get a good paralegal you should be set and prepared for your court date which you may not even have to go to (because I sure didn't). Lastly, make sure the lesson you learned from all this sticks. Don't speed again! and who cares if everyone's passing you just focus on the road and watch your speed.

I'm just glad everything's over and done with. Drive safe and watch your speed.