Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

First, thanks for this great forum and all the advice I see you guys have given to other people.

I got a ticket for going 72km/h over in a 50km/h zone. I was driving my wife's car and have no previous tickets or even been pulled over in over 10 years. I am thinking of option 2 on the ticket, early resolution. My main concern is if the insurance will go up, I am an occasional driver on her car and do not own a car myself. One of my questions is, since the court that is listed under option 2 is close to me, can I go in person to request ER, or do I need to mail in the ticket?

Also,

1) What should I expect at the ER?

2) If I don't like it, and then choose a trial, can I still do that?

3) If I later choose trial, and then want to reconsider and take a deal, do I still have that option?

4) My wife's insurance is due for renewal in January, if I choose a trial, and wait until she renews her insurance, and then take the deal, will that be more likely that her insurance will not go up, since they will have just checked our records and nothing was there?

Your insight and advice is greatly appreciated.

Oh, and lastly, not that anyone here might care, but I thought that the 3 lane road that I was on was a 60km/h zone, and I sped up to pass a city bus that was drifting into my lane. Although I've heard that they may not care what the reason was.

I suggest you plead NOT GUILTY and request a Trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, then request disclosure. Once you get disclosure (this is the evidence they have against you) and have read it THEN set up a meeting with the prosecutor to discuss early resolution.

You could do early resolution first and then request a trial if you don't like what happens at the meeting, but I would suggest it is better to get disclosure first and know what the evidence is against so you can make a more informed decision when meeting with the prosecutor.

A speeding ticket, even with 0 demerit points, can still cause your insurance to go up. If you are listed on her policy, then yes it can affect her insurance. The ticket will not appear on your record until you are found guilty, which would most likely be after January.

If I was not listed on her insurance, would her insurance still go up? I know when you lend a car, if someone gets in an accident it would affect your insurance, but does lending to someone who speeds do the same thing?

Also, if i go and ask for trial, how would I set up a meeting with the prosecutor afterwords? Just call the court house/ go in person?

Thanks

If you live at the same residence, I believe you are supposed to be listed on her insurance. But I honestly don't know much about the insurance side or how that all works. I do not know whether your ticket will affect her insurance. If there was an accident, then the insurance company would obviously be notified and would know about it. But do they get notified of a speeding ticket? I don't know!

For meeting with prosecutor, you could try just showing up but they will probably want to set a time for meeting so calling might be better (unless you live close to prosecutors office).

mikec wrote:

If I was not listed on her insurance, would her insurance still go up? I know when you lend a car, if someone gets in an accident it would affect your insurance, but does lending to someone who speeds do the same thing?

No, her insurance would remain the same. In the case of an accident, there would likely be a claim. Technically, you're supposed to notify your insurance company either way. That's how your insurance would be made aware. At that point, they charge the accident to the policy holder even if they weren't driving.

With a speeding ticket, the provider would be made aware after a check individual abstracts. If you're not on the policy, they would never know. If you leave the policy, your wife's rates may improve.

That being said, one of the reasons you're listed as an occasional driver on your wife's policy is because (I assume) you live the in the same household. Anyone with a drivers license in your house is going to need to be listed as an occasional driver. If not, you're going to need to fill out a form saying you will never drive the vehicle. A friend borrowing the car in an one off event is not the same if that said friend also lived in the house. So if you're thinking of leaving the policy and simply "borrowing" the car, that wont fly with the provider. If you fill out the form and continue to drive, you're driving without insurance.

just to answer your questions, not advise, just from my own expereince

I assume you where doing 72 in a 50, not 72 over (Thats bad)

mikec wrote:

First, thanks for this great forum and all the advice I see you guys have given to other people.

I got a ticket for going 72km/h over in a 50km/h zone. I was driving my wife's car and have no previous tickets or even been pulled over in over 10 years. I am thinking of option 2 on the ticket, early resolution. My main concern is if the insurance will go up, I am an occasional driver on her car and do not own a car myself. One of my questions is, since the court that is listed under option 2 is close to me, can I go in person to request ER, or do I need to mail in the ticket?

Also,

1) What should I expect at the ER?

they ask you why you speeded, no reason will be good enough, they ask if you will plead to a lesser charge, i.e. next band down, if there is one, maybe 10 over

2) If I don't like it, and then choose a trial, can I still do that?

yes you can

3) If I later choose trial, and then want to reconsider and take a deal, do I still have that option?

I believe at anytime before the trial starts you can, once the trial starts all bets are off,

4) My wife's insurance is due for renewal in January, if I choose a trial, and wait until she renews her insurance, and then take the deal, will that be more likely that her insurance will not go up, since they will have just checked our records and nothing was there?

the ticket should not effect your wife's insurance, we have 2 cars, my wife's tickets are her own and visa versa, when they run a abstract it is on THE DRIVER you will have a ticket and whatever she has, you only need to tell the insurance WHEN/IF you get a conviction , not before, don't lie to any questions asked

Your insight and advice is greatly appreciated.

Oh, and lastly, not that anyone here might care, but I thought that the 3 lane road that I was on was a 60km/h zone, and I sped up to pass a city bus that was drifting into my lane. Although I've heard that they may not care what the reason was.

do you have dashcam?

that you could only submit at trial , not ER, although they may listen to the reason, chances are they wont do anything

they wont care, speeding is a (forgot the word) finite (?) you either where or where not

even 1kmh over is speeding

IF your life was in danger, you where going to hospital with somone with a gun shot, you feared for your life

(and you had proof)... even then you possibly you'll still get done

mikec wrote:

Oh, and lastly, not that anyone here might care, but I thought that the 3 lane road that I was on was a 60km/h zone, and I sped up to pass a city bus that was drifting into my lane. Although I've heard that they may not care what the reason was.

Absolute Liability

Wow thanks for all the help everyone, and all the info about insurance. The follow up with a few things,

Yes we live at the same house, thanks for the info there Bend. And we only have 1 car though.

Bobajob, yes it was 72 in a 50, not 72 over, I just caught that haha. And yes I do have a dashcam, I'm looking over the footage to see how it looked that night.

So I guess I'll go and request a trial, then get disclosure, then depending on what I see (I'm sure I won't get out of it, it was a speed trap so I assume the officer will show up, as opposed to getting pulled over by a random officer driving around), then call the court and ask for ER.

For disclosure, does each court have a certain way of asking for it, should I ask when I go in person to request a trail what the best way to request disclosure is? I heard some need to be mailed, and some just phoned?

You want proof that you asked for disclosure.

So you can send it registered mail (expensive), or you can fax it and keep copy of FAX SENT OK report, or you can drop it off in person and get a copy stamped for your own records.

I just went and requested the trial. Do I submit my request for disclosure now, or wait until I have gotten a notice for trial?

Wait until you get your notice of trial.

thats it

txs Screech

screeech wrote:

Absolute Liability

Just got my notice of trial for July. I looked up on the Toronto court website at http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD and it seems a bit confusing mentioning Part I or Part II or Part III. My court is the one on Markham Road, can I fax my request for disclosure to the fax number listed for that court at the bottom of the page I provided?

And what is the best way for me to request disclosure? I have seen a few examples on here, not sure which ones to use.

Thanks everyone

I like to use fax method for everything because it is fast and cheap.

I just print out the "fax sent ok" report as proof I sent it.

If you dont have real fax then google "send free fax" there are several sites that will let you scan your letter and then upload it to them and they will fax it for you.

And is there a good example of what exactly I should write? Do I just include my info and ask for disclosure in general. I have seen an example form on here, but not sure.

There is no specific way it has to be done. Something like...

NAME:

TICKET NUMBER:

TRIAL DATE:

DISCLOSURE REQUEST

With regards to the charge information above, please accept my request for the following disclosure so that I can prepare a defense, and make full answer to the charge:

- Bla

- Bla bla

- Any other pertinent materials related to this case governed by R. vs STINCHCOMBE;

I also request that you advise me of any information, which is not being disclosed and an explanation for such non-disclosure.

Please mail disclosure to the address below. If it's more convenient for you, I can accept disclosure by email at: my@email.com

Thank you

NAME

ADDRESS

And you recommend putting an email address, but not phone number, correct? So that everything they respond with will be in writing?

You can put a phone number if you want.

But the courts have decided that YOU are responsible to call and check on the status of your disclosure. So even if you give them a phone number, email address and mailing address this is no guarantee they will ever get back to when it is ready. Some places just say that you have to come pick it up, where some might email it to you and some rarely might actually mail it to you.

So I got my disclosure, and it seems like they have everything in order. Any suggestions on what to do next? I think I would like to go to early resolution (can I still do that, trial is mid July?). A lower fine would be good, although it would still affect my insurance. Not sure what to hope for.

Let me know if you need me to post any of the disclosure. And thanks again all.

mikec wrote:

So I got my disclosure, and it seems like they have everything in order. Any suggestions on what to do next? I think I would like to go to early resolution (can I still do that, trial is mid July?). A lower fine would be good, although it would still affect my insurance. Not sure what to hope for.

Let me know if you need me to post any of the disclosure. And thanks again all.

I'm no expert, but from everything that I've read you can still cut a deal on your court date prior to the triall. And if the officer doesn't show up then your ticket will get tossed altogether.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or should I call and request early resolution?

Remember that the prosecutor is under no obligation to offer you any deal at all. But it never hurts to ask!

You could call and try to arrange meeting before trial date with prosecutor and see if they will meet with you. If they won't meet with you ahead of time, then you can speak with prosecutor before trial on your court date.

I called the prosecutor but they said I cannot do early resolution once I have selected trial date. So I will go to trial date and see if they offer a deal. Does anyone know, if the officer does not show, when is anything dropped? Would they tell me the officer did not show when I check in, or will the let it go all the way up until my ticket is called, and then check if the officer is there?

Thanks again all. My trial is in 2 days, I hope for the best.

Some prosectuors will be honest and tell you that the officer is not there. Others will not tell you and will try and get you to plead guilty even if officer is not there.

If the prosecutor will not offer you a plea deal that you like, then you can say you want your trial. When they Justice of the Peace comes out and they call your name to come up, the prosecutor will say one of two things:

1- "We are not ready to proceed and will be withdrawing the charge." this means probably the officer was not there, and it means you won!

2- "We are ready to proceed your honour" which means YES the officer is definitely there and they are ready to start the trial. When they ask you how you plead, guilty or not guilty you can either say "not guilty" and continue with your trial, or you can say "I have decided to plead guilty" and then it is over.

So if the prosecutor will not tell you whether the officer is there or not, then you may have to push it right until the start of the trial to find out for sure.

And if I plead guilty once the JP comes out, I just pay the original fine and its over right? I don't pay anything extra unless I actually have the trial and lose, is that correct?

So hopefully I get someone who tells me right away, next best is a plea right there, and worse case is waiting for the JP and pleading guilty. Thanks jsherk

You were charged with 72 in a 50 correct?

Did the officer say it was higher but they dropped it down?

Once JP comes out, if you plead guilty, it is for the charge on the ticket and not a higher charge.

The only time they can raise it up, is if the officer originally dropped it AND you plead not guilty AND the officer gets on the witness stand and testifies that it was actually a higher speed than what they charged you with. If you plead guilty, then the officer will not have chance to get on stand and therefore they can not raise it.

Let's say for example that the officer did drop it from 80 in a 50 to 72 in a 50. Make sure when they read the charge that they are not asking how you plead to the higher 80 in a 50. Just say "I have decided to plead guilty to the ORIGIANL charge of 72 in a 50."

The prosecutor addressed the entire room and offered everyone in it a blanket statement for a lesser charge. He didn't let anyone talk to him individually, you just waited for him to call your name once the JP was in. They asked if you accepted the lesser charge of X, but did not mention the new $ amount unless you asked, or said yes you were pleading to the lesser charge.

So kinda sucks that the officer showed up, because he did throw out a few right away with no officers. He even threw out a few even though the officers had checked in, but didn't respond when called because they were in the hall way. But those might have been for non-speeding offenses.

I also heard the prosecutor tell one of the paralegals when he opened the court room doors " don't worry you will be out fast, im the fastest gun in the west".

So I got a lesser charge, too bad I couldn't get it dropped all the way. But thanks again for everyone's help on here, I really appreciate it.