Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

Hi,

I didn't see a thread about this but anyway I was with a friend and he got pulled over for not slowing down for an emerg. vehicle...anyway apart from that the cop accuses him of being drunk because he smells booze and pulls out the breathalizer....he blows it and an A pops up on the screen, then he says this is the warning range, takes away his license for 72 hours but says there is no DUI charge.....

what does this mean? I have no clue and am trying to help him out, how can they suspend his license with no charge? and he never received a ticket for the warning range....is this how it works? seems a little weird

can anyone shed some light?

This from here http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety ... heet.shtml

It's a warning, so why would you get a ticket?

MTO Website wrote:

Fact Sheet: NEW Roadside Licence Suspensions

We're serious about removing dangerous drivers from our roads. Those who choose to drive after drinking endanger themselves and everyone else.

Roadside licence suspensions ensure that drinking drivers are taken off the road immediately and discourage individuals from re-offending.

As of May 1, 2009, if youre caught driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) from 0.05 to 0.08 (known as the "warn range"), the police can immediately suspend your licence up to three days for a first occurrence, seven days for a second occurrence and 30 days for a third or subsequent occurrence.

Consequences for Driving with a 0.05 to 0.08 "Warn Range" Blood Alcohol Concentration

First Time

3-day licence suspension

$150 Administrative Monetary Penalty

Second Time (within 5 years)

7-day licence suspension

Mandatory alcohol education program

$150 Administrative Monetary Penalty

Third Time (within 5 years)

30-day licence suspension

Mandatory alcohol treatment program

Six-month ignition interlock licence condition

$150 Administrative Monetary Penalty

Subsequent infractions (within 5 years)

30-day licence suspension

Mandatory alcohol treatment program

Six-month ignition interlock licence condition

Mandatory medical evaluation

$150 Administrative Monetary Penalty

These roadside licence suspensions cannot be appealed. Suspensions will be recorded on the drivers record. For up to five years, these roadside suspensions will be considered when determining consequences for subsequent infractions.

What happens if my licence is suspended?

You will be given a suspension notice by a police officer, indicating that the suspension of your licence takes effect immediately. The police officer will take your licence from you and send it back to the Ministry of Transportation (MTO).

You will not be able to drive home.

If you are with a sober passenger who is licensed and fit to drive, he or she may drive the vehicle. If it is a safe location, you can choose to leave the vehicle at the roadside, or the police will have the vehicle towed at the vehicle owners expense.

What happens after the suspension period expires?

A reinstatement notice will be mailed to you. If you do not have other disqualifications (for example, other suspensions, expired or cancelled licence), the reinstatement notice will include a Temporary Drivers Licence (TDL). You may then go to a Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office to pay the $150 administrative monetary penalty. A new plastic licence card will then be mailed to you.

If you did not receive a reinstatement notice, you may obtain a TDL from a Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office.

To find the Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office nearest you, please visit the MTO website.

If your suspension ends on a day when the Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Offices are closed (for example, a statutory holiday) and you did not receive a TDL in the mail, you will need to wait until they re-open. You must have a valid drivers licence to drive.

Normally you would receive a notice of suspension. It's not a ticket, but a similar size piece of paper saying your licence is suspended for X hours.

hmm...thats odd the cop didn't give him a suspension notice...

seems a little harsh, since when did breathalizers not give you the actual amount...it just gave him an A figure....no actual reading...

this seems like a dictatorship, you can't even contest the charge...how ridiculous

The roadside screening device does determine your actual blood alcohol content, but for simplicity it displays a letter code for certain values. "A" simply means your BAC is in the warn range, which is 0.05% to 0.099%. Since the actual legal limit is 0.08%, you could be just over the legal limit and still get a warning, so there is a bit of a buffer for any possible inaccuracies with the reading.

Furthermore, you can contest the reading. Youd have to advise the officer youre disputing the reading, and youd be transported to the station. There you could provide a second sample into an actual intoxilyzer for a more exact reading. Its not something to do lightly though, because if you provide a sample over the legal limit at the station, you could then be charged criminally.

thanks for all the info I appreciate it, one more question though, does this 3 day suspension go on your insurance?

seems a little unfair that technically not being drunk or over .08 would get you into this kind of trouble

gpolitop wrote:

thanks for all the info I appreciate it, one more question though, does this 3 day suspension go on your insurance?

seems a little unfair that technically not being drunk or over .08 would get you into this kind of trouble

No. The roadside suspension is what's known as an administrative suspension, with no finding of guilt in Court. Because of that, insurance companies aren't supposed to use that information.

And just FYI, as said above, your friend could have been over 0.08, and still blow a warn.

gpolitop wrote:

seems a little unfair that technically not being drunk or over .08 would get you into this kind of trouble

the amount of alcohol to get into the "warn" range is a lot of alcohol!!

your friend would have spent more on drinks than it would have been for a cab ride home.

Stanton wrote:

gpolitop wrote:

thanks for all the info I appreciate it, one more question though, does this 3 day suspension go on your insurance?

seems a little unfair that technically not being drunk or over .08 would get you into this kind of trouble

No. The roadside suspension is what's known as an administrative suspension, with no finding of guilt in Court. Because of that, insurance companies aren't supposed to use that information.

And just FYI, as said above, your friend could have been over 0.08, and still blow a warn.

I am not sure this is completely correct, as it does come up on the driver's abstract. Further to that it is regarded as an Alcohol related suspension, so its quite possible that it will.

paul1913 wrote:

I am not sure this is completely correct, as it does come up on the driver's abstract. Further to that it is regarded as an Alcohol related suspension, so its quite possible that it will.

You're correct in that all suspensions appear on your driving abstract, but that's more for police & MTO use. The Financial Services Commission of Ontario, which regulates insurance, has a bulletin stating administrative suspension's can't be held against a driver. Here's the quote from their bulletin:

An administrative lapse or a suspension of a drivers licence is a documented drivers licence lapse for administrative or medical reasons that are not connected to driving offence convictions. Reasons can include non-renewal or expiry of a drivers licence due to a consumers oversight, temporary medical conditions, unpaid parking tickets, outstanding support payments to the Family Responsibility Office or outstanding payment to the Motor Vehicle Accident Claims Fund. An Administrative Drivers Licence Suspension (ADLS) is also considered an administrative lapse because there is no driving offence conviction connected with the suspension. The new policy is to ensure that future rating of short term administrative lapse or suspension of a drivers licence is supported by actuarial evidence.

To the best of my knowledge, the roadside suspension for a warn is considered an administrative suspension, just like the 90 day ADLS.

gpolitop wrote:

hmm...thats odd the cop didn't give him a suspension notice...

seems a little harsh, since when did breathalizers not give you the actual amount...it just gave him an A figure....no actual reading...

this seems like a dictatorship, you can't even contest the charge...how ridiculous

Well, there technically is no "charge", it's a warning.

The point they're trying to get across is, don't drink and drive! I'm the last person to point fingers, but what they're driving towards is making people aware that even one beer can land you in trouble. When you're out with friends, one beer can lead to three beers, can lead to five beers, can lead to ten beers, etc. Happens too easily.

Also, a lot of people tend to pre drink before going out for a night, so if you have a couple of beers at a buddies place or bar, then drive out to another bar/club/etc, they could potentially stop you before you hit that bar and drink to the point where you do something harmful later in the night, but them stopping you before hand doesn't eff up your entire life the same way a dui charge would. More like a quick nip in the butt that smarts for a little while.

Just sayin'.

Also in many other countries, .05 is what will lead to criminal sanctions. Since the provinces couldn't change the Criminal Code, they simply put in administrative penalties for .05. British Columbia went too far with their escalating sanctions, and part of their law got struck down by the courts.

I agree drinking and driving is stupid, but having two beers and getting charged is also stupid, lets face it some people stone sober are worse at driving than a guy who had a bottle of liquor but I digress....I was with him he had two to three drinks in four hours in no way a danger to the road...while the cop was pulling him over I bet about 5 absolutely drunk people passed by.......my rant is over...thanks for the info

Stanton wrote:

paul1913 wrote:

I am not sure this is completely correct, as it does come up on the driver's abstract. Further to that it is regarded as an Alcohol related suspension, so its quite possible that it will.

You're correct in that all suspensions appear on your driving abstract, but that's more for police & MTO use. The Financial Services Commission of Ontario, which regulates insurance, has a bulletin stating administrative suspension's can't be held against a driver. Here's the quote from their bulletin:

An administrative lapse or a suspension of a drivers licence is a documented drivers licence lapse for administrative or medical reasons that are not connected to driving offence convictions. Reasons can include non-renewal or expiry of a drivers licence due to a consumers oversight, temporary medical conditions, unpaid parking tickets, outstanding support payments to the Family Responsibility Office or outstanding payment to the Motor Vehicle Accident Claims Fund. An Administrative Drivers Licence Suspension (ADLS) is also considered an administrative lapse because there is no driving offence conviction connected with the suspension. The new policy is to ensure that future rating of short term administrative lapse or suspension of a drivers licence is supported by actuarial evidence.

To the best of my knowledge, the roadside suspension for a warn is considered an administrative suspension, just like the 90 day ADLS.

Interesting. I had a friend of mine get done with impaired. He plead guilty and his insurance counted that he had 3 alcohol related suspensions on his record, 1.ADLS, 2. CC Suspension. 3. HTA suspension following it. So from one incident he had 3 on his record and will for 6 years

Other people have posted about insurance companies using administrative suspensions to increase their rates as well. If your friend argued the point and advised them of the FSCO bulletin, they should overlook the ADLS. That being said, with a criminal and HTA suspension, not sure how much difference getting the ADLS taken off will make.

gpolitop wrote:

I agree drinking and driving is stupid, but having two beers and getting charged is also stupid,

2 drinks wouldnt even give a "WARN"

hwybear wrote:

gpolitop wrote:

I agree drinking and driving is stupid, but having two beers and getting charged is also stupid,

2 drinks wouldnt even give a "WARN"

As a police officer you should know everyone has only had 2 drinks.

Maybe some bars serve really big glasses of beer.

Stanton wrote:

hwybear wrote:

gpolitop wrote:

I agree drinking and driving is stupid, but having two beers and getting charged is also stupid,

2 drinks wouldnt even give a "WARN"

As a police officer you should know everyone has only had 2 drinks.

Maybe some bars serve really big glasses of beer.

yes, forgot those

Does a 3-day suspension for .05 to .08 cause any problems crossing the border to the US (flight) after the suspension is served? Will this record show at customs from my passport and if so, should I admit to any offence even though it's just an ADLS?

Thanks!

No, it should not cause any issues for border crossings.

I believe custom agents are mainly interested in Criminal offences, not traffic. Regardless, a 3 day suspension is not an actual conviction, but simply an administrative suspension.

How many drinks would someone need to have to get a warn then? Say per hour or couple hours time?

admin wrote:

How many drinks would someone need to have to get a warn then? Say per hour or couple hours time?

Its tough to say because weight, gender and other biological factors will impact how quickly your BAC level changes. I would say most adult males can consume approximately 1 drink per hour without exceeding the warn range, but some smaller females cannot.

MADD has a chart with approximate BAC levels based on weight and gender here: http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/ABCs%20_o ... NALdoc.pdf

They go on to say "For the vast majority of people drinking socially – having a glass of wine or two with dinner or a beer or two after work – you will not reach the .05% level. If you are going to be drinking more than that, plan alternate transportation home."

Interesting...Thanks!

The MTO website decribes '.08 and over' as an administrative suspension (ADLS) as well as .05 to .08... shouldn't '.08 and over' be listed as a criminal offense in Ontario, not an ADLS?

Stanton wrote:

admin wrote:

How many drinks would someone need to have to get a warn then? Say per hour or couple hours time?

Its tough to say because weight, gender and other biological factors will impact how quickly your BAC level changes. I would say most adult males can consume approximately 1 drink per hour without exceeding the warn range, but some smaller females cannot.

MADD has a chart with approximate BAC levels based on weight and gender here: http://www.madd.ca/media/docs/ABCs%20_o ... NALdoc.pdf

They go on to say "For the vast majority of people drinking socially – having a glass of wine or two with dinner or a beer or two after work – you will not reach the .05% level. If you are going to be drinking more than that, plan alternate transportation home."

Stanton wrote:

No, it should not cause any issues for border crossings.

I believe custom agents are mainly interested in Criminal offences, not traffic. Regardless, a 3 day suspension is not an actual conviction, but simply an administrative suspension.

Sorry meant to reply to the above quote:

The MTO website decribes '.08 and over' as an administrative suspension (ADLS) as well as .05 to .08... shouldn't '.08 and over' be listed as a criminal offense in Ontario, not an ADLS?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... .8.6.shtml

Criminal is federal and to get a criminal suspension you need to be convicted in criminal court of over 80 or impaired driving etc.

. The Over 80 ADSL is a provincial suspension that is given for just blowing over 80 and getting charged.

OPS

Stanton wrote:

No, it should not cause any issues for border crossings.

I believe custom agents are mainly interested in Criminal offences, not traffic. Regardless, a 3 day suspension is not an actual conviction, but simply an administrative suspension.

Although a '.05 to .08' ADLS SHOULD cause no border problems going from Canada to the US, I was just wondering if this ADLS would show when they check my passport at the airport, and if I need to tell them about it if they ask if I have anything outstanding.

On a side note, I believe I read that an American with one DUI 'over .08' can be refused entry to Canada, but it's OK for a non-American with only one charge going to the US.

I don't think an ADLS would show at the airport. I think Customs only checks to see if there is any history of smuggling or trying dodge duties and taxes, any immigration holds that may have been placed on you, and if you have a criminal record or any outstanding warrants. Even if they can see it I don't think it would effect your ability to enter the country, I wouldn't mention it unless they bring it up.

I know that impaired driving is considered a hybrid offence in Canada, which means it can be charged as either an indictable or a summery conviction offence. indictable offences are considered more serious and have stronger punishments then summery conviction offences. Any non-Canadian seeking to enter Canada who has been convicted of an indictable offence or an offence outside of Canada that would be considered indictable if it happened in Canada, can be bard from the country (there is a process for getting an exemption and I think if enough time has passed one may be deemed rehabilitated but I'm not entirely sure how it works). Since impaired driving is a hybrid offence CBSA treats a conviction for it as if it were indictable. I think many US states treat impaired driving as a misdemeanor (sort of equivalent to a summary offence) and that is why some Americans are surprised when an old impaired driving conviction leads to them being bard from the country.