Ontariohighwaytrafficact.com

What is the minimum amount of time needed to request disclosure (i.e how many weeks before court date must you file for disclosure)?

Usually 9 weeks is the minimum "safe bet" lead time.

There is no set minimum time, as a lot of people don't even know that they can request disclosure, find this site, read over, "Oh *EDIT*" response kicks in, and they scramble to request disclosure a week before the date, and then adjourn.

Realistically, it should not take the prosecution more than 8 weeks, so I would say 2 months before trial would be a good bet.

Thanks for the replies, RI and racer.

So, if a guy files for disclosure 4 weeks before court date, I assume the adjournment would be "charged" to defendant? i.e. defendant would be responsible for the delay (therefore not helping the 11b process).

Unless the prosecutor moves quick, that may be the case. You can make an argument that it does not take much time to photocopy the stuff needed. If your friend only has 4 weeks left, I would still ask for it and see what happens.

Disclosure was already requested. He faxed his disclosure exactly 1 month before court date. Obviously, he hasn't had any reply yet. He will fax his 2nd disclosure request 2 weeks before court date.

I assume he will not get anything before his court date. I'm sure the judge will adjourn so we can get disclosure. The 1st court date is 10.5 months after the infraction.

Ideally, we want the prosecution to be responsible for the delay (which would give us a VERY strong case for 11b). Any other advice on how to accomplish this?

neo333 wrote:

Disclosure was already requested. He faxed his disclosure exactly 1 month before court date.

Ideally, we want the prosecution to be responsible for the delay (which would give us a VERY strong case for 11b). Any other advice on how to accomplish this?

How can the court be responsible if this person waits one month prior to trial to ask for disclosure? sure they knew about their court date a lot sooner than one month.

Hwybear: I hear you..... The guy (like most every average person) was not aware of his right to disclosure, until he had a conversation with me with only 4 weeks left. But 4 weeks seems plenty to provide a few photocopies.....

neo333 wrote:

The guy (like most every average person) was not aware of his right to disclosure, until he had a conversation with me with only 4 weeks left. But 4 weeks seems plenty to provide a few photocopies.....

Sounds almost exactly as I said lol.

As for your friend, I would ask the court to dismiss the charge due to not receiving disclosure, and try to make a point that another day in court will cause an undue hardship due to wages lost for that day.

What is the offence?

racer: it sounds exactly as you said, because i got from you! lol.

The offence is speeding 82 in a 60.

The judge won't laugh him out of the courtroom if he tries for a dismissal based on disclosure would he? He is pushing it with only 4 weeks notice on disclosure...

22 over can be dropped to 15 over, as soon as he tells the prosecutor that he didn't receive the disclosure. Not getting disclosure = another day in court for all 3 (your friend, prosecutor, cop). Plea-bargain might be the best way to go.

Now, it does not hurt to apply for 11b because 10 months should be a long enough delay. And he better do it ASAP too...

Most people once they receive the disclosure have no idea what to do with it.....do you?

OTTLegal wrote:

Most people once they receive the disclosure have no idea what to do with it.....do you?

I call and bitch about lack of information.

How likely will a judge toss the case on an 11b for 10months?

OTTLegal wrote:

Most people once they receive the disclosure have no idea what to do with it.....do you?

OTTLegal: why don't you enlighten us?

The value and substance of your post pales in comparison to the length of your signature and link to your website......

I was reading some more over at ticketcombat.com. He recommends at least 15 days (if faxed):

"Your disclosure request should include a reasonable return date (diary date) of seven days for Canada Post to deliver it (if you don't fax it) plus 15 days for the prosecutor to gather the information. You should request disclosure well in advance of your trial so that you have enough time to review it and also enough time to request further follow up information."

http://ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurehow.php

Based on this, 4 weeks in advance (as my buddy did) should be adequate!!

update: The guy faxed his 2nd disclosure request 2 weeks before court date.

He just called me and said the prosecutor's office just called him to tell him that the disclosure is ready for pick up. Let's see what they give him (more importantly, what they don't give him!). Hopefully it is deficient.

He has confirmed that he only received a copy of the officer's illegible notes. No radar manual, etc. He is faxing his 3rd request disclosure today stating that the disclosure thus far is deficient and illegible. He also didn't even receive a copy of the officer's copy of the ticket (isn't that required if requested??)

Oh, and from what he can read, there is no mention of any testing on the officer's notes that have been disclosed.

neo333 wrote:

No radar manual, etc.

I sense "stay of proceedings"!

neo333 wrote:

He also didn't even receive a copy of the officer's copy of the ticket (isn't that required if requested??)

This I'm not too sure about. The only time it would be required is if there's something on it that would have a reasonable possibility of assisting the defence. If there's nothing on it other than what your friend received on his Provincial Offences Notice, then I'd think it wouldn't be required.

Update: He faxes his 3rd disclosure request (specifically for the radar manual and notes showing testing of unit that day) last week. His court date is this Thursday.

Then he has an excellent chance of Chapter 7 defence - Improper disclosure. Advise your friend not to take ANYTHING from the prosecutor on the day of trial - he can slip the disclosure, one of the dirty tactics employed by crown prosecutors we have heard about.

Is the procedure for Chapter 7 defence the same as filing an 11b? There is no time for that as the trial is this afternoon. Or can he simply ask for a stay based on improper disclosure before he pleas?

Respectfully ask for stay before the plea, due to incomplete disclosure.

Crown will try to adjourn, let him if you can get him to admit that it is crown's fault. (gives you good 11B arguments)

My buddy will do that. He says he will reference Chapter 7 and the crown policy manual and it's section on disclosure...

Question: Are city (i.e. toronto) prosecutors specifically bound by the Ontario crown policy manual as published by the Ministry of the Attorney General?

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.c ... losure.pdf

Also in terms of referencing case law? Does one have to kill a dozen trees to print 3 copies of each decision or can you simply bring a usb stick and offer a copy to the court/crown?

neo333 wrote:

My buddy will do that. He says he will reference Chapter 7 and the crown policy manual and it's section on disclosure...

Question: Are city (i.e. toronto) prosecutors specifically bound by the Ontario crown policy manual as published by the Ministry of the Attorney General?

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.c ... losure.pdf

Last time I checked, Toronto was a part of Ontario, so yes

There is also case law about that, can't pin it of the top of my head though

neo333 wrote:

Also in terms of referencing case law? Does one have to kill a dozen trees to print 3 copies of each decision or can you simply bring a usb stick and offer a copy to the court/crown?

Once you see a computer in front of both the JP/judge and the crown prosecutor, then they MIGHT start saving trees. I hear you 100%, but Lady Justice is not only blind, but also deaf to the sound of falling trees.