Now I'm not against people in Law inforcement, and althought most of this may be obvious, there's no harm in having a discussion about it. The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is if they are..). The government has invested a lot of money in technology to grab cash from people, but have done nothing to help innocent people make full answer to any charge. You can pay all of your parking tickets, speeding tickets or any other infractions online at, how convenient (minus the extra charges that they add on for the service). But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online? Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt? I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge. Having said that, typically people go to court to dispute charges, most walk in and settle for a plea bargain deal that the prosecutor offers them (not news to anyone on here). Seeing people come in and out like hens at a slaughter house, some of the people might actually be innocent and yet, they have no knowledge of their rights, and their fear of the whole court system results in them settling for a plea bargain deal. Not everyone is in position to pay large sums of money hire a paralegal or lawyer to defend them, and the prosecutors, JP, officers know that. I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court. It goes without saying.. You only have rights, if you know what they are. It's just my opinion :)
Now I'm not against people in Law inforcement, and althought most of this may be obvious, there's no harm in having a discussion about it. The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is if they are..).
The government has invested a lot of money in technology to grab cash from people, but have done nothing to help innocent people make full answer to any charge. You can pay all of your parking tickets, speeding tickets or any other infractions online at, how convenient (minus the extra charges that they add on for the service). But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online? Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?
I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.
Having said that, typically people go to court to dispute charges, most walk in and settle for a plea bargain deal that the prosecutor offers them (not news to anyone on here). Seeing people come in and out like hens at a slaughter house, some of the people might actually be innocent and yet, they have no knowledge of their rights, and their fear of the whole court system results in them settling for a plea bargain deal.
Not everyone is in position to pay large sums of money hire a paralegal or lawyer to defend them, and the prosecutors, JP, officers know that. I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.
It goes without saying.. You only have rights, if you know what they are. It's just my opinion
Last edited by KiX on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would guess that b/c it would be way worse than the snail mailing system, people ask for a trial, tie up court time and do not show. Maybe a $500-1000 penalty should be imposed to anyone that does not show to trial after requesting one? I don't know much about disclosure side. I submit copy notes, copy of PON. Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty) 1) plead guilty 2) plead guilty with time to pay 3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B) 4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee. JP's will not let rights be violated. JP's will not offer suggestions of defence nor will JP's offer suggestions of prosecution Maybe an alternative is the prosecution submits a willsay and so does defence and JP reads both and makes a decision.
KiX wrote:
But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online?
I would guess that b/c it would be way worse than the snail mailing system, people ask for a trial, tie up court time and do not show. Maybe a $500-1000 penalty should be imposed to anyone that does not show to trial after requesting one?
Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?
I don't know much about disclosure side. I submit copy notes, copy of PON.
I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.
JP's will not let rights be violated.
JP's will not offer suggestions of defence
nor will JP's offer suggestions of prosecution
Maybe an alternative is the prosecution submits a willsay and so does defence and JP reads both and makes a decision.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated. I agree, however the downside to that is we'd pay higher taxes, more user fees, and probably have bigger fines if we did try to make it more convenient. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but it is...
hwybear wrote:
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.
KiX wrote:
The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is it they are..).
I agree, however the downside to that is we'd pay higher taxes, more user fees, and probably have bigger fines if we did try to make it more convenient. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but it is...
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated. ... that's a really good idea too
Radar Identified wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)
1) plead guilty
2) plead guilty with time to pay
3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)
4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.
Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.
...
that's a really good idea too
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
