yes. Plus I have the advantage of 9yrs of traffic and over 1800 seizures, which I can testify to for my own evidenceand common things associated with SMWD.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

So you have evidence just not the smoking gun........That's different

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

Comparing a murder investigation to having a SMWD 2 different things.

Would you charge someone with robbing a store and they have enone of the evidence. How can you prove based on that.

Your telling me that you can just suspect someone to have a radar detector is good enough for a fine without finding it i dont think so?

So if you pull me over and i am a shy person naturally and the officer thinks i am trying to hide something this is suspicion of having a SMWD?

The HTA does not specify what a SMWD device means. It says a "speed measuring warning device."

So if i had a CB radio and was listening the cops isn't that radio now a speed measuring warning device?

It is a device warning me of speed traps is it not?

I mean come on the implications of what you said are off the wall.

Imagine charging someone with trafficking drugs and they have no drugs... You would think you need to catch them (evidence) or find drugs on the property (warrant) or something.

Otherwise police could charge anyone they want. They could convict you of murder just because of the color of your skin.

This is so wrong.

Would you charge someone with cashing a fraudulent check when they re is no record of this ever happening on their bank records?I think not.

Imagine if your detachment decided to fire you for not following the rules or duties of your job but they had no proof. You would not be happy.

Sure suspicion of having a radar detector when your Spectre goes off. Thats evidence. Seeing something suspicious on the window.

Bat an aware driver who brakes under an over pass? Is he now under suspicion of having one? So if you can't find it you can charge him???

This means you can pull over anyone on the road for suspicion of having one. This is bazaar.

So what if you can't see it and can't find it and can't detect it with a spectre or VG-2???

They do have ones like this. What would you do then. Im sorry but convicting someone with no proof is not right.

If you can see it, find it, or detect it by all means give them the fine.

But if you don't see one, can't find one, can't detect one. Then how can you fine someone for it and have that on your conscious that you have no proof what so ever that he even had one in the first place.

I am guessing the argument is someone will be speeding a mile a minute then slow down immediately.

So what is to say this driver though he saw some debry on the road, was just passing some people, trying to get away from an aggressive driver? I mean come on with no proof that is ridiculous.

Murder and radar detectors are not the same thing. Murder is an act, where as a SMWD is a device, without the device giving a charge or suspecting of it is insane.

Even with murder you have to proof. If a cop sees a guy near the murder victim and he has shifty eyes he is not a murder. Even if they can't get the weapon then hey need some proof this was done forensic science, witnesses, timing events, etc.

tdrive2 - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you must have just finished working 16hrs, and was up prior to work for 2hrs......b/c none of that reflects the posts prior

Should read the posts above where it is well explained and where Reflections understands

Here is that so ever elusive definition that you could not find:
“speed measuring warning device” means any device or equipment designed or intended for use in a motor vehicle to warn the driver of the presence of speed measuring equipment in the vicinity and includes any device or equipment designed or intended for use in a motor vehicle to interfere with the effective operation of speed measuring equipment

BTW...there is not one SMWD that is undetectable.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

And how are we defining "detectable."

Sure any SMWD or radar detector is detectable. But this gets into a discussion between Laser Jammers vs Radar Detectors.

And if you meant detectable as in you could see it sure. If you can see it that is detecable.

If you mean detectable such as you detecting it with your spectre okay. But no there is some that can not be detected with this.

Beltronics STi / STi-R, Escort Passport 9500.

Those are not detectable by the spectre unless the OPP have some kind o new magical devise or there is a newer spectre.

I was under the impression the Spectre 4 & 5 could not detect the STi models or the escort.

Did you mean detectable as in "being able to see it in the window, license plate, etc" Or as in you not being able to get a reading with Lidar cause someone is jamming your gun?

Sure those are detectable. I am sure many do this when using laser Jammers.

But there is some RD's that the Spectre RDD can not detect, even at ridicoulosy close range like less than 5 feet there is videos on youtube of people trying it out they are easy to find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0iDZ4Yz5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl27vsc1FZo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLP6jHwrm6Q

This is an extreme example where the STi is less than a foot and it picked it up.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXM0G2bM ... re=related

Now bear i believe you know a fair bit about this.

How recent is the spectre RDD 4+.

I did hear that this one can pick up the STi Driver and the so called "stealth models". Is this true? Sorry i have not read up on this stuff in a while.

See here is another video with a guy testing spectre 4 vs STi Driver.



In this one he can not detect it.

These videos confuse me.

So is it the Spectre 4+ now that can get all them?

What 'Bear is refering to is that just b/c the spectre cannot detect the devices does not mean that the officer cannot make you demonstrate that you have one.

Let's say that officer Barney Fife
is sitting under a bridge and that you cannot see him. You drive past him and he toggles his radar on and off again. At the same point in time you slam the brakes. The officer would have plenty of physical evidence that your vehicle has a SMWD somewhere inside.

Now if you want to play difficult and hide the device, the officer still has every reasonable right to rip apart your car to find it. If the device is of an intracate installation it's off to the impound yard with your vehicle.....

Detection is more then electronic.. The officer could see the mount points for the device, suction cups, velcro...etc. You would still be screwed. And yes the devices you have listed have stealth capabilities but you can still get caught.

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

All those videos are "construed" on how you want the results......similiar to stats of whatever nature (ie who wants them and for what reason).

First the RDD has to be operating properly to start with. You have to have an incoming signal from a detector, all I saw was outgoing detector signals (away from a Spectre). Another RDD was not turned on, but plugged in to activate, has this destroyed the internal components to a weakness that it does not work properly?

The Spectre does detect the "elusive ones"....now I do not know the percentage either.....how many detectors are out there? how was the Spectre positioned at the time? Did I interpret the Spectre properly or disregard it's message as false, was I in position to turn around and catch up to the vehicle.....so many variables involved it is hard to say.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

Well bear now i heard when you get a hit the best idea is just to turn off the detector

Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppppppp

Ah now its time to unplug it, remove the suction cups, turn off anything else, and put it away!

Sorry my bad it seems the Escort 9500 is now detecable by the Spectre IV+ RDD.

Although STi Driver seems to be good still.

But some of us hardcore traffic people won't give you a chance......sitting and sitting and at that car coming....wait for it....wait for it..... I/O BINGO too late!

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

Pfftt... radar detector. Who needs one? Just keep a good lookout and 99.5% of the time you'll see the police before they even think about aiming a radar or lidar at you. I've found that eyesight works better than radar detectors anyway.

But what about them lidars? They seem to work fine for a mile away. Better than 99.5 % of the peoples' eyesight.

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com

lidar is the scariest one.

Sometimes they go on the highway in black unmarked cars late at night and sit way ahead and aim at you.

I guess the next car i buy will be black.

Reflections absolutely in day light radar traps are not hard to find. If your paying attention you can see them. In the GTA area and outside the medians are all concrete anyways with small shoulders they're is not many places to hide.

Nothing like Chatam!

bear i had no idea you have seized that many detectors? Are alot American vehicles or something your close to the US border aren't you?

bear one time you should come do a shift with the Toronto detachment or that one at Aurora.

I think the Aurora one watches the 407 and the 400, boy you would have some fun on there .

Anyone else have a road that always seizes to amaze them. The 401 is always the same thing aggressive people in a hurry 120-140 never changes.

Although the 400 sometimes is entertaining. I have seen some wild speeds on their and even police chasing down culprits.

It must be the autobahn of Ontario.

Anyways with radar detectors i dont see the need all the time. Radar if your paying attention and not speeding to crazily you should see.

It's lidar you need to worry about and the problem with Laser Jammers is a smart officer will know when he is being jammed. You would have to disable them very quickly and slow down without jamming on your brake lights.

Moving radar is so so. It depends where you are and how much traffic. Usually in GTA you can always see the people infront and behind but i am sure in some places this is very tricky especially down in chatam where the officer can pull a U turn between highways!.

The 400 is fun. One time i even wanted to go up there on a long weekend and sit there on the shoulder and try to find a cheap lidar unit or radar unit and see the fastest speeds i can find!!!

Reflections you get around. I heard the 407 is very fast. I have never been on it at all rarely but i heard in some places they have 4-6 lanes in one direction and the flow of traffic can get well over 140.

Define "flow". One or two vehicles doing 140 while everyone else does 120 does not mean the "flow" is 140. I've been in clumps on the 407 where we all hover around 130, but if you see a LEO *bam* down to 110. And I'd say that 50% of the time the officer is just sitting doing paperwork, but his presence slows the "flow". It all depends on the time of day and weather conditions.

For example, QEW on my way into work at 6:45am the left lane is 120-130. However, get on at 7:00pm and you are looking at 100(!) to 120. 403 and 410 are a *EDIT* shoot. Sometime you move other times you sit behind some johnny who can't take his eyes off the road in front of him or get off the fookin' cell phone to look in the rearview mirror. Last night I was "flowing" in the left lane, when I came upon two cars not ten feet apart in the next lane over. There was plenty of space for the following car to move around the leader but nope. There he sat waiting to cause an accident for no reason other then he does not get it.

I'll give credit to 'Bear that driver education in Ontario is nothing more then a make work project for some govn't types, however if laws can be passed that do an end run around the constitution (*cough) S.172 (*cough, wheeez), then why not do the right thing in the eyes of "safety" and make better drivers??? I really do hope Fantino and Mcguinty give this site a gander and implement half of the suggestions......boy we can all dream can't we??

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

That's a matter of perspective. The Don Valley Parking Lot is an absolute howler. Also for surface streets, try the Danforth, Steeles Avenue, Highway 7 and, if you want to go all day long over total incompetence at operating a motor vehicle (half the speed limit, turns from the wrong lane, stopping in the middle of the road, "fake turns" and driving through red lights 10 seconds after it turned red at 30 km/h) try Lawrence Avenue when it runs through Scarborough. The 400 is the autofragginbahn.



Yep. No effort by the gov't to give people the tools and resources to be better drivers (better education); just more restrictions, banning and draconian laws.