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Licence Plate Obstruction
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:38 am 
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Good Morning,

On Friday I was pulled over in Toronto by an officer for rolling through a stop sign. The officer had me on a dash cam, and she was recording our conversation. I explained I know I should have stopped and after running my plates and licence, she decided not to give me a ticket for rolling through the stop sign as my record was really good. Instead she gave me an obstruction of licence plate as I have dealer tags around my licence plate. She said it was in violation of the Ontario Highway Act. I was really unsure as to what she was talking about, and she showed me. She said that if I'm on the 407 they may have a hard time reading my plates. In my head though, I knew I was on the 407 before and have been billed. This is the first time I have even heard of the violation. I didn't want to contest anything because she let me off the hook.

Apparently it's a charge that can affect my insurance rate. I've never been to court and don't know much of the proceedings, but my dad said I should go fight it. Is this fightable? Should I go for option 2 or 3 (2nd option is meeting early with a prosecutor)?

Thank you


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
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I'm sure somone with a bit more knowledge will be along soon, but here's a few things

* License plates, you cannot put or attach anything on to you license plates, it's well.. illegal, dealers play dumb, they know it, 99% of people drive around with them, some are better than others, I believe as "long" as your plate and sticker can be CLEARLY seen, most LEO's won't pull you over, again, it's something they can use to stop you. but you shouldnt have it, me, I didnt and now I do, but my plate can be seen clearly and I use the 407 for 4-5 years.

Looks like the officer gave you a break, noticing the cover which everyone has, not sure about points or demerits or fine, but suspect it is lesser than rolling through a stop sign.

That said, I think even an obscured plate is points and a fine, if so it's a minor conviction, which "could" effect your insurance, sometimes with your insurance they wont worry too much about it, when compared to a moving traffic violation, as it is more about safe driving. (That's what my insurance guy told me)

A minor conviction now, and another within 2-3 years, could see you having problems

Some here will say it's better to fight EVERY ticket, you can get lucky, it's better NOT to have any minor tickets right ;)

HTH


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:54 am 
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ok,
I think both are minor, so as far as insurance are concerned, they may treat each differently, but it is still an offence, I think as I said an obsured plate shouldnt effect you,
no demerits for the plate, 3 for the stop sign
and whatever the fines are

So... you did catch a break, but both are MINOR convictions

A stop sign ticket has four different penalties:
Three demerit points
A $110 fine
A conviction registered on your driving record for three years
Possible insurance increases


Number plate to be kept clean

(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:11 pm 
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The ticket issued was only for the obstruct plate. If I go to court, they cant ding me on the stop sign infraction after the fact, especially since the officer didn't issue me a ticket right?


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
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Yes they can give you a ticket for the thing from the dealer around your plate.

The officer has 6 months to give you a ticket for rolling the stop sign. So if you choose to fight the obstruct plate charge they may (or may not) write you up for rolling the stop sign.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:36 pm 
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rafiki;
my understanding from reading posts on here;
is that, she cut you a break INSTEAD of the stop sign, so it was almost like a reduced ticket.
so if you plead guilty, yes obstruct plate, and if you fight and loose, they could reinstate the original charge, as well as the obstruct plate.

BUT..... > Jsherk question
is this not the same for fighting reduced speeding tickets, i.e. they give you a break but can on fightng and failing go back to the original speed.

in THIS case , there dropping the stop sign charge (i.e. give the break), can they STILL charge it if he fights and fails?

cheer


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:33 am 
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Almost unheard of for it to happen though.

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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:29 am
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Thanks for the reply. Jsherk, or anyone, can you please point me to where you got the info that they can still charge up to 6 months?


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:26 am 
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This is not the same as fighting a reduced speeding ticket because in this case you could end up being charged with both the obstruct plate AND the fail to stop.

Now, most likely the officer won't know you are fighting the ticket until you ask for disclosure. If you plead not guilty and request a trial and the trial date is more than 6 months from the date of incident, then you can just wait until the 6 month time frame before requesting disclosure. In this case there is a very little chance you will get charged with the fail to stop. On the other hand, if the trial date is less than 6 months from incident, then the officer MIGHT decide to issue the fail to stop charge. They do not have to, but they could.

6 month limitation...
Ontario Provincial Offences Act
Limitation
76. (1) A proceeding shall not be commenced after the expiration of any limitation period prescribed by or under any Act for the offence or, where no limitation period is prescribed, after six months after the date on which the offence was, or is alleged to have been, committed.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:31 am 
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Sorry, I'm new to all this, but what does disclosure mean in this case?


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:35 am 
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Disclosure is when you request the evidence that the prosecution has against you.

In your case, you would ask for a copy of the officers notes and copies of any audio or video if they exist.

What is in the officers notes is what they will testify on the witness stand about what happened, so that is why it is important to read them before the trial.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:13 am 
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There is almost a zero chance of the other charge being laid. Unless the OP was extremely memorable through poor attitude or some other reason this would just be one traffic stop among many for the officer. To prepare a summons, send it off to be signed by a JP and then to have to serve the OP just isn't going to happen.

Besides which it would appear punitive. This isn't the same as a reduced speed.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
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So if it was me, I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, post back here and let us know when it is.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Licence Plate Obstruction
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
Posts: 379
actually a good point,
I guess as cicvie's we forget that cops ticket people like giving out candy on halloween :)
by the time our thing comes up, it's like "who... what?" LOLZ

I guess to us, NOT having had a ticket or getting a single ticket, we remember and know everything.

Like in my job, people ask me what I did to somone's account 2 days ago, damn, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast.

unless like you say your encounter was... ermmm... memorable

argyll wrote:
There is almost a zero chance of the other charge being laid. Unless the OP was extremely memorable through poor attitude or some other reason this would just be one traffic stop among many for the officer. To prepare a summons, send it off to be signed by a JP and then to have to serve the OP just isn't going to happen.

Besides which it would appear punitive. This isn't the same as a reduced speed.


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