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Re: 144/18
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:54 pm 
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I do not see much benefit in it as it does not help prove which one of you ran the red light.

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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:08 am 
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jsherk wrote:
I do not see much benefit in it as it does not help prove which one of you ran the red light.

i do know there was no officer on scene till a few min after because the station is a few blocks from where the accident happened. i do know that it was determined he was significantly speeding based on the fact that witnesses stated that he hit my vehicle with enough force to put it on two wheels (information relayed to me via the insurance company. i do know that on the direction he was driving was in the tail end of a school zone as well. london is notorious for very short yellows and very short duration to turning green for other direction. i distinctly recall seeing the light changing from yellow to red when i was spun around and came to a stop. which leads me to believe with him speeding that he tried to hop the light (my opinion on that anyways). idk who the witnesses are, but idk how credible there statements are with how long it seems to have taken for the police to gather them and decide to charge me. the guy who hit me was asked for his statement at the scene and i was not, my information was taken however ie:DL and insurance. wasn't told where my passengers were taken and left on the corner. I had to flag down a officer that had been doing traffic control where my passengers were taken and what was going on. thankfully my mother in law was about a 5 min drive from the location and had been able to come grab me. so she took me down to the hospital where my wife and passenger were, investigating officer had asked them for their statements which amounts to little as they had their noses in their phones at the time. investigating officer gave me the incident report at the hospital and after asking twice was told where my vehicle was taken. (whole other can of worms but tow company is crooked and wouldn't give me my possessions from the vehicle (lawyer is dealing with them)). Was informed by officer if he needed me for anything he would be in contact with me as he had all my contact info as well as my phone #. never heard from him after that, i placed 2 calls to him which he never returned and i placed one to his commanding officer as well sense my calls were not returned.

so given the circumstances not hearing anything from them and not receiving a ticket had assumed i had been in the clear till the insurance company spoke with me after i had received that summons. the whole scenario is jinky and makes me wonder how legal everything is.


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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:25 am 
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also correct me if im wrong here in order for them to issue the summons to me the officer would have to have filed a certificate of offence with the court? if thats the case he would have had 7 days from the date of the accident to do so in order for it to be valid. if this is the case i know the summons wasn't filed filed in the court till sept 3rd, i wasn't served with it till the 11th for me to be at court for the 12th. like i stated on page one im exploring all avenues on this, i go back to meet with the paralegal next week so i want to have some things to pursue with him then(mostly want to make sure im not wasting my time looking into certain aspects of this with him).


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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:41 am 
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You will need to plead Not Guilty and request disclosure (officers notes AND all witness statements). Until you get those, we are just speculating and need to know what everybody said before we can determine how he came about giving you the red light ticket.

Now, you keep getting confused about the officer filling times... according to what you have said, the officer has done everything correctly so far.
(1) The officer has 6 months from the date of incident to give you a ticket. It can be either a Notice of Offence or a Summons.
(2) If it's a Notice of Offence, then he must file the Certificate of Offence with the court within 7 days of him giving you the ticket (not 7 days from the date of incident).
(3) If it's a Summons, there is no requirement for him to file anything with the court within any time frame.

You can read about Notice of Offence & Certificate of Offence tickets under PART 1 (sections 3 thru 13) of Ontario Provincial Offences Act.
You can read about Summons tickets under PART 3 (section 21 thru 27) of Ontario Provincial Offences Act.
Link to Ontario POA: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33

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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:30 am 
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jsherk wrote:
You will need to plead Not Guilty and request disclosure (officers notes AND all witness statements). Until you get those, we are just speculating and need to know what everybody said before we can determine how he came about giving you the red light ticket.

Now, you keep getting confused about the officer filling times... according to what you have said, the officer has done everything correctly so far.
(1) The officer has 6 months from the date of incident to give you a ticket. It can be either a Notice of Offence or a Summons.
(2) If it's a Notice of Offence, then he must file the Certificate of Offence with the court within 7 days of him giving you the ticket (not 7 days from the date of incident).
(3) If it's a Summons, there is no requirement for him to file anything with the court within any time frame.

You can read about Notice of Offence & Certificate of Offence tickets under PART 1 (sections 3 thru 13) of Ontario Provincial Offences Act.
You can read about Summons tickets under PART 3 (section 21 thru 27) of Ontario Provincial Offences Act.
Link to Ontario POA: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33


ok so when i spoke with the insurance company they stated to me that it showed i was charged with 144 (18) how does a summons equate to being charged with something when received any ticket? makes me think that there has to be a certificate of offence registered at the court house..... which would mean sense i haven't received a ticket in the mail before the summons (which is sent by registered mail or delivered in person) that its a fatal flaw. just doesn't seem right that i could be charged and never know about it before receiving a short notice court appearance.

likely still flogging a dead horse but, i have not come across any material that says otherwise either way on this


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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:12 am 
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Please read the POA PART 1 and PART 3 before you ask more questions yourself...

Now, I just read thru the POA again, and let me correct a couple things I said:

(1) Under PART 1 (filing a certificate of offence), the officer can give you either a Notice of Offence or a Summons within 30 days of the incident. The officers copy of both of these is called a Certificate of Offence and the officer has 7 days from the date they gave it to you, to file it with the court.

(2) Under PART 3 (laying an information), the officer can give you a Summons. I can not find any mention of time limits, so I am not sure where I got the idea about the 6 months. Can also not find anything about what officer needs to file with court. Will have to look into this futher.

So the first thing you need to figure out, is if the Summons that you were given was under PART 1 or under PART 3. Regulation 108/11 says that a Summons under PART 1 will be on a FORM 7. It says "Form 7" somewhere near the top of it, and somewhere near the bottom it says "served under Part 1 of Provincial Offences Act". The regulation does not say anything about a Summons under PART 3 though, if it is not a Form 7 and does not say anything about Part 1 then we can assume it is a Part 3 summons.

If it is a Part 1 Summons, and it was given to you on Sept 11, which was about 40 days after the incident, then you can ask for the charge to be quashed/dropped per Section 3(3) of POA:
"POA 3. Service (3) The offence notice or summons shall be served personally upon the person charged within thirty days after the alleged offence occurred."

Can you scan and post your summons (with persona/officer info blanked out)?

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Last edited by jsherk on Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:19 am 
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jsherk wrote:
Please read the POA PART 1 and PART 3 before you ask more questions yourself...

Now, I just read thru the POA again, and let me correct a couple things I said:

(1) Under PART 1 (filing a certificate of offence), the officer can give you either a Notice of Offence or a Summons within 30 days of the incident. The officers copy of both of these is called a Certificate of Offence and the officer has 7 days from the date they gave it to you, to file it with the court.

(2) Under PART 3 (laying an information), the officer can give you a Summons. I can not find any mention of time limits, so I am not sure where I got the idea about the 6 months. Can also not find anything about what officer needs to file with court. Will have to look into this futher.

So the first thing you need to figure out, is if the Summons that you were given was under PART 1 or under PART 3. Regulation 108/11 says that a Summons under PART 1 will be on a FORM 7. It says "Form 7" somewhere near the top of it, and somewhere near the bottom it says "served under Part 1 of Provincial Offences Act". The regulation does not say anything about a Summons under PART 3 though, if it is not a Form 7 and does not say anything about Part 1 then we can assume it is a Part 3 summons.

Can you scan and post your summons (with persona/officer info blanked out)?


Not till next week paralegal has it. Guy is new but can't afford better. Will get copies next week when I see him in person again.


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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:20 am 
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If it is a Part 1 Summons, and it was given to you on Sept 11, which was about 40 days after the incident, then you can ask for the charge to be quashed/dropped per Section 3(3) of POA:
"POA 3. Service (3) The offence notice or summons shall be served personally upon the person charged within thirty days after the alleged offence occurred."

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: 144/18
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:13 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
If it is a Part 1 Summons, and it was given to you on Sept 11, which was about 40 days after the incident, then you can ask for the charge to be quashed/dropped per Section 3(3) of POA:
"POA 3. Service (3) The offence notice or summons shall be served personally upon the person charged within thirty days after the alleged offence occurred."

I'll check into this part when I see it. I don't recall the wording of it now sense I read it once only


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