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115 On Highway 401
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Hey everyone, sorry if this is the wrong section for this (i'm a new user :) )

Well today as I was coming home from class, I was travelling at about 116-118 and police officer was driving in the express holding up traffic and I didn't really see him. So as I go to pass in the middle lane we started going down a slight hill (before the service centre on townline exit); I didn't want to apply my brake so I just kept slowly creeping in front of the officers vehicle thinking nothing of it until I see him pull behind me and pull me over. He asked where I was rushing to even though I was doing AT MOST 117-118 so I told him home and he then proceeded to tell me he was already doing 15 over the limit and I was passing him. He didn't tell me he got me on radar or anything and gave me a ticket for 115 with no points. I spoke to my dad who said to just pay the $52.50 charge, but my friends are telling me I should try and fight it. I'd just like to see what everyone else thinks before I come to a conclusion. Thanks!

EDIT: This is my first ticket, I'm a 19 y.o male with a G license.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1373
He does not need to get you on radar. He can just testify to his own speed and that you were going the same or faster.

VEHICLE INSURANCE & DEMERITS
The effects of pleading guilty to a 0 demerit charge, can still cause your insurance rates to increase for 3 years. It is important to remember that insurance companies do NOT care about demerit points. Insurance companies rate the tickets you get as either MINOR, MAJOR or SERIOUS. For each minor conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a little. For each major conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a lot. For each serious conviction you have, your insurance may DOUBLE your rates or even refuse to provide you with insurance at all.

For example, most speeding tickets, regardless of demerit points, are considered minor and will affect your insurance the same. Example:
- Speeding 1 over to 15 over = 0 demerit points = Considered MINOR by inusrance company.
- Speeding 16 over to 29 over = 3 demerit points = also considered MINOR by inusrance company.
- Speeding 30 over to 49 over = 4 demerit points = also considered MINOR by most inusrance companies (some may consider this MAJOR).
If you get a ticket for 1 over, it will affect your insurance exactly the same as if you got a ticket for 29 over. The insurance companies do not care about the demerits and do not care about the speed.

WHAT SHOULD I DO? HOW DO I FIGHT MY TICKET?
Regardless of how simple or complex the charge is (from parking tickets to DUI), you have the RIGHT to a fair trial and a RIGHT to see the evidence they have against you. Even if you admit to doing whatever you were charged with, you still have these rights.

So my advice is that you should plead NOT GUILTY and request a Trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial with a trial date, you can request disclosure (copy of notes of all officers involved, copy of radar/laser device manual if applicable).

Once you get the disclosure (officers notes), post them back on the forum so we can review them and give you more advice (black out any personal id info and officer id info).

You have nothing to lose by doing this, as you can still plead guilty and pay the ticket anytime up to the trial. You have everything to gain because the officers notes contain what they will testify, and if something is missing in their notes, you might be able to get the charge dropped.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 3
jsherk wrote:
He does not need to get you on radar. He can just testify to his own speed and that you were going the same or faster.

VEHICLE INSURANCE & DEMERITS
The effects of pleading guilty to a 0 demerit charge, can still cause your insurance rates to increase for 3 years. It is important to remember that insurance companies do NOT care about demerit points. Insurance companies rate the tickets you get as either MINOR, MAJOR or SERIOUS. For each minor conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a little. For each major conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a lot. For each serious conviction you have, your insurance may DOUBLE your rates or even refuse to provide you with insurance at all.

For example, most speeding tickets, regardless of demerit points, are considered minor and will affect your insurance the same. Example:
- Speeding 1 over to 15 over = 0 demerit points = Considered MINOR by inusrance company.
- Speeding 16 over to 29 over = 3 demerit points = also considered MINOR by inusrance company.
- Speeding 30 over to 49 over = 4 demerit points = also considered MINOR by most inusrance companies (some may consider this MAJOR).
If you get a ticket for 1 over, it will affect your insurance exactly the same as if you got a ticket for 29 over. The insurance companies do not care about the demerits and do not care about the speed.

WHAT SHOULD I DO? HOW DO I FIGHT MY TICKET?
Regardless of how simple or complex the charge is (from parking tickets to DUI), you have the RIGHT to a fair trial and a RIGHT to see the evidence they have against you. Even if you admit to doing whatever you were charged with, you still have these rights.

So my advice is that you should plead NOT GUILTY and request a Trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial with a trial date, you can request disclosure (copy of notes of all officers involved, copy of radar/laser device manual if applicable).

Once you get the disclosure (officers notes), post them back on the forum so we can review them and give you more advice (black out any personal id info and officer id info).

You have nothing to lose by doing this, as you can still plead guilty and pay the ticket anytime up to the trial. You have everything to gain because the officers notes contain what they will testify, and if something is missing in their notes, you might be able to get the charge dropped.


Thank you for your reply. I believe I will do the Early resolution option.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1373
Early resolution means you are going to meet with the prosecutor and see if they will offer you some kind of plea deal. I highly doubt the prosecutor will offer you anything on a 15 over speeding ticket. My opinion is that early resolution is a waste of time and you should skip it and just go for the Not Guilty/Trial option. However if you do go to early resolution and you do not like the offer that the prosecutor makes, then you can ask for a trial and disclosure at that time.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:51 am
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jsherk wrote:
Early resolution means you are going to meet with the prosecutor and see if they will offer you some kind of plea deal. I highly doubt the prosecutor will offer you anything on a 15 over speeding ticket. My opinion is that early resolution is a waste of time and you should skip it and just go for the Not Guilty/Trial option. However if you do go to early resolution and you do not like the offer that the prosecutor makes, then you can ask for a trial and disclosure at that time.


Okay thanks. Will keep in mind.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 925
I'd agree with whatever has already been posted.

If the officer reduced the charge on scene to 15 over, the charge will be amended to whatever it was originally should a trial actually start (e.g. 17km and 3 demerit points versus 15km and 0 demerit points).

You're a fully licensed G driver. The points aren't really going to matter. At 15km, an early resolution meeting is practically useless. There's no movement there on your charge. It's already low and they can't go any lower.

If you want to request a trial, you don't have much to lose. You're not really in a better position by pleading guilty, so why not I guess.


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Re: 115 On Hig
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 624
Assuming that this played out as the OP says, this is exactly the reason people hate the police. Makes me so angry that trained investigators waste their time writing ludicrous tickets like this one. Everyone does 15-18 over the limit. Traffic enforcement should revolve around aggressive driving not just a few kilometres over the speed limit.

It's the inconsistency of police response that frustrates people. My old service just released their weekly roundup. They reported two incidents where someone rear ended another car. One got a follow too close ticket and the other got a careless.

In all management models they talk about consistency of behaviour and response. Police enforcement is anything but that.

Sorry for the OP's luck. Rant over.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 118
argyll wrote:

It's the inconsistency of police response that frustrates people. My old service just released their weekly roundup. They reported two incidents where someone rear ended another car. One got a follow too close ticket and the other got a careless.

In all management models they talk about consistency of behaviour and response. Police enforcement is anything but that.

Sorry for the OP's luck. Rant over.


Perfectly worded, thank you for the rant, at least I'm not the only one that feels this way.

jsherk wrote:
Early resolution means you are going to meet with the prosecutor and see if they will offer you some kind of plea deal. I highly doubt the prosecutor will offer you anything on a 15 over speeding ticket. My opinion is that early resolution is a waste of time and you should skip it and just go for the Not Guilty/Trial option. However if you do go to early resolution and you do not like the offer that the prosecutor makes, then you can ask for a trial and disclosure at that time.


I have seen deals offered on reduced tickets from 15 over down to 10 over just for the win, especially if the prosecutor knows has a non-winning case and is trying to get you to simply say "guilty"

It is up to "you" to do your homework and research.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 589
Guess if you don't like the inconsistency and the human factor of law enforcement, they should put up more red light cameras and bring back photo radar. That keeps everything consistent.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
Posts: 389
oh God no !!!!!!

we have that in the UK and it's mainly used as a stealth tax (photo radar that is)

no longer driving like I'm looking for speed cameras, and the slamming of brakes as you approach one
(mind you radar detectors are legal in UK)

mind you more cops on the roads, and they dont seem to be as lenient as the UK ones
and more likely to write you up

peace out ;) have a great day yall

Decatur wrote:
Guess if you don't like the inconsistency and the human factor of law enforcement, they should put up more red light cameras and bring back photo radar. That keeps everything consistent.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 118
Decatur wrote:
Guess if you don't like the inconsistency and the human factor of law enforcement, they should put up more red light cameras and bring back photo radar. That keeps everything consistent.

Not to worry, it won't be long before photo radar is back, my guess is 2-5 years.
York region has already submitted an application to MTO for this and they are considering it.
The problem is, photo radar does nothing to actually make the roads safer, where as a police officer does. When a driver is pulled over, no matter how you slice or dice it, the chat with the officer puts thing in perspective and they watch the way they drive for some time.
When you pass a camera, you have no idea your photo was taken and you get a fine in the mail a week or two later and you simply scratch your head, thinking when? How?
How does this make the roads safer? It doesn't.

To the OP:
My advice, never pass an officer on the highway unless they are doing below the speed limit, because in most cases this would be viewed as you dissing them and daring them while breaking the law in their presence. Unless you are looking for trouble, you should always show them respect them and not break the law.
I have traveled between 110 and 120 on the 401 myself and been passed by OPP cruisers without even a look from the officer, had it been the other way around, I guarantee you I would have got a ticket.


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 624
Plus when I pull someone over I don't just affect that driver but everyone else on the road who sees the flashing lights. I live in the UK now and almost all enforcement is by camera and people see the ticket in the mail simply as a cost of doing business.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: 115 On Highway 401
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 12:54 am
Posts: 31
Cops do pull you over for over 10km/h too, depend on their mood, you never overtake or pass Police Cruiser, they are human like us, lemme ask you, if someone passes you and stay in front of your car do you like that ? i get annoy when someone pass me and stay in front of me slowing down etc.

What Cop hates ?

1, Car enthusiast, car mod
2, Loud Muffler (i personally hate loud muffler too even though i do car mod but i do the right way)
3, Overtake them with speed
4, your car looks flashy

i saw this SUV doing 118k,/h on Don Valley with 90km limit, Cop Car behind him and didn't pull him over, they don't use signal when lane change or turning, cop sees it and no pull over. Like i said it's depend on their Mood, if Cops happy they won't give you hard time.


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