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Police refuses to charge (175)
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:09 pm 
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OK, this is a very different post from the usual ones we see and I am hoping it will not cost me my account...

I live in a neighbourhood with too many aggresive drivers, lets not name the area or the local police deprtment.

The issue I have is that, although I have personally reported the licence plate of driver who failed to stop for a school bus with the lights flashing, the police refused to do anything about it, despite my repeated follow-ups and making it clear that I would be at the court to testify.
Furthermore this driver failed to stop at the stop sign, so my report contained both offences.
Now if this is not a clear indication of how indifferent this driver is when it comes to HTA, I don't know what is.

To make matters worst, this is not a problem with small number of residents, this is a big problem in my neighbourhood and it puts children in a real danger.
I have seen people race on a single lane road with a posted speed limit of 40 Km/h at speeds as high as 70 Km/h.
They take corners so sharply that nearly casue head on collisions.

So my question to police officers on this board is, what can I/we, residents of the neighbourhood do for the police to take these reports seriousely and begin charging such aggresive drivers?

I thank everyone in advance for their time, inputs and reading this post.


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Reporting it directly to the police unfortunately does not work in some jurisdictions. Similar to mine, where I've sent many many roadwatch complaints with zero feedback.

The key here is to communicate with your local councillors; in my area I have a regional and city councillor. The moment I sent them an e-mail with video evidence of multiple drivers blowing a nearby stop sign.

I immediately got a call from the local police and they setup an enforcement point at that location for the next few weeks.

Councillors have a lot more power over the police. You need to relay your concerns to them, going directly to the police in some cases is a waste of time.

Toronto Police are aggressively trying to charge drivers through roadwatch complaints, but it requires that you get a good description of the driver. York Region will send them a roadwatch warning letter, and PRP doesn't have the resources to send you a response. Not sure how OPP handles these complaints.


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 3:23 pm 
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Unfortunately unless you know who's driving the vehicle the police cannot lay a charge. If all you have is a plate the police cannot prove in court that it was the registered owner driving the vehicle. All we could do was contact the RO and issue a caution.

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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Observer135 wrote:
The issue I have is that, although I have personally reported the licence plate of driver who failed to stop for a school bus with the lights flashing, the police refused to do anything about it, despite my repeated follow-ups and making it clear that I would be at the court to testify.
Furthermore this driver failed to stop at the stop sign, so my report contained both offences.


iFly55 covered most of this already. In the case of stopping at a stop sign, you have to be able to identify the driver, AND be in a position to observe that the vehicle's forward motion did not fully stop, even for a microsecond. In the case of a school bus, they can charge the registered owner, but unless they had a report from the school bus driver, they usually will not pursue it. The bus driver is in the best position to observe if the driver stopped or not, and whether the bus was stopped or not. Usually they report every violator so if they didn't have a corresponding report from the school bus driver, they figured (rightly or wrongly) that you didn't correctly observe the offence.

If you see demented driving on a regular basis, the best thing to do if the police won't act is to do what iFly55 suggests: Contact your local councillor. They won't handle complaints against a specific driver, but they will get in touch with police to increase enforcement... usually.

Observer135 wrote:
OK, this is a very different post from the usual ones we see and I am hoping it will not cost me my account...


Um, that won't cost you your account. You asked a reasonable question. Things that cost people their accounts include:

- Trolling
- Spamming
- Personal attacks or threats
- Anarchy posts or counselling people to commit offences

Etc.

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http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:07 pm 
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When I lived in Richmond Hill this was a big problem on my street people were going 80-100km and it was mostly this Nissan 350Z with a kid driving it. One day when I was raking the grass between the sidewalk and the road he came burning around the corning and then full throttle down the road everyone was outside as it was one of the first nice days of the year. My rake "fell" on the road just as he was coming down he his the rake and it ripped almost all the bottom of his car off.

He stopped Police came, I explained what had happened and made one comment "what if it was not a rake but a small child" all the neighbors talked to the officers and explained what was going on and ended up charging him with reckless driving.


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:15 am 
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I can't condone that course of action but it did make me chuckle !

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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:20 am 
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Can't condone that either. Consider what would've happened if the driver had swerved to avoid the rake, or blown a tire and lost control at 100 km/h on a residential street when...

devin98 wrote:
everyone was outside as it was one of the first nice days of the year.


The only thing worse than a driver who is going too fast for the conditions... is a driver who is going too fast for conditions AND has lost control.

Having said that, at least the twit got stopped.

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http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:27 am 
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I just like to thank everyone for their input and advice...

I guess I'll be calling my local councilor, hope he can help.
I too had to chuckle at the "falling rake" story, but it is not something I would do myself.

I always teach my kids to be responsible, I tell them to assume the driver of the car approaching is a very bad one or a careless one, they need to be the ones protecting themselves at all times.

Using the same logic, I will leave the law enforcement to the professionals, the local police department.

Before we close this post, I would like to understand one thing, can anyone with 100% certainty tell me if the owner of a vehicle can be charged based on a citizen's report? I read in other posts that if the driver can not be identified, the owner can be fined (no demerit points) under HTA 175 (19) or (20)

Once again, thank you all...


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Observer135 wrote:
Before we close this post, I would like to understand one thing, can anyone with 100% certainty tell me if the owner of a vehicle can be charged based on a citizen's report?


An owner can be charged for failing to stop for a school bus based on your report, yes. As I mentioned earlier, some police services want the school bus driver to be the one who reported it, but from a legal perspective, there's no reason as to why they can't charge someone based on a report from you.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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You could lay a private information through the Courts. You’d have to show a Justice of the Peace that there are reasonable grounds to believe an offence was committed. The only catch is that the Crown Attorney will review the allegations and ultimately decide if they want to proceed with the charge or not.

Provincial Offence Act wrote:
23. (1) Any person who, on reasonable and probable grounds, believes that one or more persons have committed an offence, may lay an information in the prescribed form and under oath before a justice alleging the offence and the justice shall receive the information.


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Re: Police refuses to charge (175)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Yes owner of vehicle can be charged, would need a statement from the witness (you) and pending what you saw, a statement from the bus driver to ensure the overhead lights were operational. I would go farther and go see the bus myself and check the lights, on top of all the statements.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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