Just had my day in court and lost :( But I wanted to post my story in case it helps anyone else fare better than I did. This past October I had the unfortunate luck to receive my first traffic ticket in at least 16 years. It was for failure to stop at a red light, a serious matter no doubt, but as both my passenger and I agreed, the light had most definitely been Amber when I entered the intersection and I had no time to stop for it. 'No problem I thought to myself, after the initial shock had worn off, 'I have the truth on my side, I did not commit this offence, and Ill just go to court and present my side of the case. This, I have now learned was fairly naive of me. First, after doing a little research on the internet, I found that I could receive disclosure, in this case, the police officers notes. So, I sent in my request when I received my court date. No response. I sent it again, still nothing. So off I went to court, hoping to delay the trial so I could get my hands on these notes. At the first trial, I stated I had not received my disclosure, the prosecutor claimed they did not receive my request. Well I had the fax receipt in my hands, but maybe such a busy office hadnt gotten to all their faxes? Well no, as I later discovered, when I received my disclosure, with the date stamp on it (the date was before my trial) they had received my request, ignored it, and then lied about it in court. I was taken aback by this.....they can just lie? And for what purpose? Anyways, I decided to proceed with my fight, I prepared questions to show that the officer had not seen my car enter the intersection, he did not pull me over until blocks later, and had lost sight of my car, making it possible that it had been another car after me that had run the red. I thought I had a decent case. Unfortunately it hinged on the officer being able to recall the events, and tell the truth about them, which I thought he would. Not only did he change the story while on the stand, first he saw me only once I was in the intersection, then he saw me enter the intersection. He also lied about where he pulled me over! He claimed it was 100m from the intersection, which was absolutely not the case. The Justice of the Peace wouldnt let me finish my line of questioning to establish that there was no way he didnt lose sight of my vehicle given the set up of the intersection and the heavy traffic (Queen and Dufferin, bridge prevents being able to see around the corner). He then contradicted the officers own testimony (and notes) by saying there was light traffic, when the officer had said more than once that there was heavy traffic. He did not take into account my testimony or my witnesss that the light had been amber, or that I was pulled over in a completely different spot than the officer said. So I was convicted, based on convoluted testimony of an officer that clearly didnt remember the incident. The attitude of the JP towards me made me feel that he had already found me guilty in his mind from the moment I went up there. Im not sure why, I wasnt rude or disrespectful, I dressed appropriately and did not interrupt, and I only sought to tell my story in hopes that the truth would come out. I feel now that traffic court is a complete waste of time, testimony does not matter unless you are a police officer, you are convicted before you even open your mouth. I feel let down by the officer who clearly did not remember and just made things up on the stand to justify the ticket. I feel let down by the JP, who did not care about the truth and made things up to suit his decision. I am not going to appeal, though I probably should, because this matter has already taken up too much of my time, I just wanted to tell my story so that others can be more prepared for how things work than I was. I think I naively thought that the JP would listen to both sides of the story and give them equal weight, I was wrong. I wish I had hired a lawyer.
Just had my day in court and lost
But I wanted to post my story in case it helps anyone else fare better than I did.
This past October I had the unfortunate luck to receive my first traffic ticket in at least 16 years. It was for failure to stop at a red light, a serious matter no doubt, but as both my passenger and I agreed, the light had most definitely been Amber when I entered the intersection and I had no time to stop for it. 'No problem I thought to myself, after the initial shock had worn off, 'I have the truth on my side, I did not commit this offence, and Ill just go to court and present my side of the case. This, I have now learned was fairly naive of me. First, after doing a little research on the internet, I found that I could receive disclosure, in this case, the police officers notes. So, I sent in my request when I received my court date. No response. I sent it again, still nothing. So off I went to court, hoping to delay the trial so I could get my hands on these notes.
At the first trial, I stated I had not received my disclosure, the prosecutor claimed they did not receive my request. Well I had the fax receipt in my hands, but maybe such a busy office hadnt gotten to all their faxes? Well no, as I later discovered, when I received my disclosure, with the date stamp on it (the date was before my trial) they had received my request, ignored it, and then lied about it in court. I was taken aback by this.....they can just lie? And for what purpose?
Anyways, I decided to proceed with my fight, I prepared questions to show that the officer had not seen my car enter the intersection, he did not pull me over until blocks later, and had lost sight of my car, making it possible that it had been another car after me that had run the red. I thought I had a decent case. Unfortunately it hinged on the officer being able to recall the events, and tell the truth about them, which I thought he would. Not only did he change the story while on the stand, first he saw me only once I was in the intersection, then he saw me enter the intersection. He also lied about where he pulled me over! He claimed it was 100m from the intersection, which was absolutely not the case. The Justice of the Peace wouldnt let me finish my line of questioning to establish that there was no way he didnt lose sight of my vehicle given the set up of the intersection and the heavy traffic (Queen and Dufferin, bridge prevents being able to see around the corner). He then contradicted the officers own testimony (and notes) by saying there was light traffic, when the officer had said more than once that there was heavy traffic. He did not take into account my testimony or my witnesss that the light had been amber, or that I was pulled over in a completely different spot than the officer said. So I was convicted, based on convoluted testimony of an officer that clearly didnt remember the incident. The attitude of the JP towards me made me feel that he had already found me guilty in his mind from the moment I went up there. Im not sure why, I wasnt rude or disrespectful, I dressed appropriately and did not interrupt, and I only sought to tell my story in hopes that the truth would come out. I feel now that traffic court is a complete waste of time, testimony does not matter unless you are a police officer, you are convicted before you even open your mouth. I feel let down by the officer who clearly did not remember and just made things up on the stand to justify the ticket. I feel let down by the JP, who did not care about the truth and made things up to suit his decision. I am not going to appeal, though I probably should, because this matter has already taken up too much of my time, I just wanted to tell my story so that others can be more prepared for how things work than I was. I think I naively thought that the JP would listen to both sides of the story and give them equal weight, I was wrong. I wish I had hired a lawyer.
Very sorry to hear but almost all of us here lost our first. I decided to fight my future tickets for the same reason as you, I went to court and had a *EDIT* JP and a corrupt cop. I lost mine at first but then you learn the system and how they twist the truth legally and you learn from it and do it yourself in the future A bit of note not not just for tickets but for every civil or criminal matter, half these cases are decided outside the courts and on procedure, not neccesarly if you're really guilty or not. To get my point across think of OJ Simpson. Here is what went wrong You should not have accepted trial, they can not force you to defend yourself on such short notice. If you never received disclosure you have a right to go back home and wait until they can prepare it within enough time for your review it and build your case or if you got disclosure in the court room you simply ask to put it over 3 months down the road. What good is disclosure if you can't read it and make a decision or call witnessess about it. Yes the system is dirty, I don't want to say corrupt because not all of it is, its just people smarter then you who know what to say and when to say it. I'm not smarter than the dedicated traffic platoon but the last time we went to court I did beat the pants off them in procedure and left them with their toungues hanging and embarrased in front of 20 people. The crowns is about the lowest life form you can find in the justice system, I don't even go out in the hall with them when they ask, you know why they ask you go in the hall, because there are no recorders there and they off the record when they are threating you and telling you will lose. I made all my crowns eath those words and that last one was a little woman who took more then she could swallow. Don't let the crown ever run you. Learn from it, the next one will be better for sure. If you're really upset abou it you can launch an appeal. Its not easy but possible and considering this isn't murder you really have nothing to lose, I always did all my practice on simple charges like parking tickets, statutory offcences etc.. You might not want to wait for a DUI to act as your own lawyer and fight the crown. My advice, appeal it.. Since they scammed you there is no reason a judge shouldn't grant a new trial based on disclosure not received.
Very sorry to hear but almost all of us here lost our first. I decided to fight my future tickets for the same reason as you, I went to court and had a *EDIT* JP and a corrupt cop. I lost mine at first but then you learn the system and how they twist the truth legally and you learn from it and do it yourself in the future
A bit of note not not just for tickets but for every civil or criminal matter, half these cases are decided outside the courts and on procedure, not neccesarly if you're really guilty or not. To get my point across think of OJ Simpson.
Here is what went wrong
You should not have accepted trial, they can not force you to defend yourself on such short notice. If you never received disclosure you have a right to go back home and wait until they can prepare it within enough time for your review it and build your case or if you got disclosure in the court room you simply ask to put it over 3 months down the road. What good is disclosure if you can't read it and make a decision or call witnessess about it.
Yes the system is dirty, I don't want to say corrupt because not all of it is, its just people smarter then you who know what to say and when to say it. I'm not smarter than the dedicated traffic platoon but the last time we went to court I did beat the pants off them in procedure and left them with their toungues hanging and embarrased in front of 20 people.
The crowns is about the lowest life form you can find in the justice system, I don't even go out in the hall with them when they ask, you know why they ask you go in the hall, because there are no recorders there and they off the record when they are threating you and telling you will lose. I made all my crowns eath those words and that last one was a little woman who took more then she could swallow. Don't let the crown ever run you.
Learn from it, the next one will be better for sure.
If you're really upset abou it you can launch an appeal. Its not easy but possible and considering this isn't murder you really have nothing to lose, I always did all my practice on simple charges like parking tickets, statutory offcences etc..
You might not want to wait for a DUI to act as your own lawyer and fight the crown.
My advice, appeal it.. Since they scammed you there is no reason a judge shouldn't grant a new trial based on disclosure not received.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
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Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
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I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
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Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
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Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
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I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
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I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
