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School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not stopped
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:57 am 
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What is the requirement for stopping when a school bus is traveling down the roadway, initiates the flashing red lights while still moving but has not yet stopped? If a motorist is traveling through an intersection (through the free-flow approach, minor-street stop controlled) and an oncoming school bus initiates the lights while approaching the intersection, but is still moving and has not come to a stop nor has the stop sign been activated), is the motorist expected to slam on the breaks within the intersection and come to a stop even though the bus is moving and approaching the intersection? What's the protocol here? My interpretation is that the bus driver activates the flashing overhead red lights while approaching it's destined stop as a warning to other motorists that a stop is imminent (similar to that of an amber signal indication - stop if you can safely do so but the expectation is not that you slam on the breaks in the middle of the intersection the instant the indication changes from green to amber). Is this grounds to be charged with an offense even though the school bus was still moving?

Is there any onus on the school bus driver to use judgement when approaching a bus stop and to activate the lights when "safe" to do so - not when an oncoming car is a cars length from your bumper then lay on the horn at the driver as the bus passes them?

What about the instance where you see an oncoming bus, lights are activated (bus is approaching and is still moving). You stop, yet the bus continues past you to pick up kids at a stop further down the way - seems confusing.

Long question short - if the oncoming bus is still moving, then initiates the overhead flashing red lights, if you pass the bus while it's still moving are you at risk of being charged? Or is the offense in passing a STOPPED school bus with flashing red lights activated (regardless if the stop sign is out or not).

Thanks.


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:55 am 
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Read section 175 of the HTA. Too long to post.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... .htm#BK254


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:04 am 
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I interpret the HTA as stating the bus has to be stopped in order for it to be a violation. Why then would a bus driver honk as the bus passes an oncoming vehicle seconds after initializing the warning lights? If the bus driver chooses to report an incident does the motorist have any chance in disputing it given the bus was moving?


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:00 pm 
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You're correct, the bus must be stopped. If you can show (or raise reasonable doubt) that the bus was still moving, you would not be convicted.


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Thanks for the response - how do you raise reasonable doubt that the bus was still moving if its the motorist's word versus that of the school bus driver?


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Kaylan_e wrote:
Thanks for the response - how do you raise reasonable doubt that the bus was still moving if its the motorist's word versus that of the school bus driver?


Have you received a ticket or are you just stressing over a recent incident?


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Kaylan_e wrote:
Thanks for the response - how do you raise reasonable doubt that the bus was still moving if its the motorist's word versus that of the school bus driver?


There's no specific "how to", it would be the same as any other charge. You'd have to present your evidence and the driver would present theirs.


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Re: School bus moving with flashing red lights - but not sto
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
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175(11)

Fail to stop for school bus - meeting

Set Fine: $400.00

Total Payable: $490.00

Demerit Points: 6

Every driver or street car operator, when meeting on a highway, other than a highway with a median strip, a stopped school bus that has its overhead red signal-lights flashing, shall stop before reaching the bus and shall not proceed until the bus moves or the overhead red signal-lights have stopped flashing.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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