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Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Posts: 6
Hello,

I am being charged with 175(19).

The driver's witness statement from the disclosure package states that he had stopped, and that my vehicle was six car lengths away (approaching, and two lanes over with a posted speed limit of 80kmh, ideal road conditions).

The statements I made to the officer who served me the ticket (made in writing in his General Occurrence Report) state that from my recollection the bus had not stopped moving when I passed it. This is key because the the officer recorded my statement the day after the offence.

My witness in the vehicle will state that the school bus had not stopped, no children had disembarked, and that no lights were activated.

My fine is $490, with no demerit points.

In order to come to a complete stop from a speed of 80kmh a vehicle requires a distance of 13 car lengths (53m). Which is composed of a reaction time of 14.7m, and a braking time of 38.7m.

The driver's witness statement states that my vehicle was six car lengths away.

My witness statements will say that the bus driver had not stopped at all.

The police General Occurrence Report will state that the day after the offence I reported the facts to him as I remembered them, and that I recall the bus had not stopped moving when I passed it.

It is not my intention to be convicted of a major offence, however, because I am fighting it I am basically admitting to being the driver of the vehicle when the supposed offence is said to have occurred. Do I implicate myself by fighting this?

If I implicate myself do I accrue the risk of being given demerit points?


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 493
OctoberRain wrote:
Hello,

I am being charged with 175(19).

The driver's witness statement from the disclosure package states that he had stopped, and that my vehicle was six car lengths away (approaching, and two lanes over with a posted speed limit of 80kmh, ideal road conditions).

The statements I made to the officer who served me the ticket (made in writing in his General Occurrence Report) state that from my recollection the bus had not stopped moving when I passed it. This is key because the the officer recorded my statement the day after the offence.

My witness in the vehicle will state that the school bus had not stopped, no children had disembarked, and that no lights were activated.

My fine is $490, with no demerit points.

In order to come to a complete stop from a speed of 80kmh a vehicle requires a distance of 13 car lengths (53m). Which is composed of a reaction time of 14.7m, and a braking time of 38.7m.

The driver's witness statement states that my vehicle was six car lengths away.

My witness statements will say that the bus driver had not stopped at all.

The police General Occurrence Report will state that the day after the offence I reported the facts to him as I remembered them, and that I recall the bus had not stopped moving when I passed it.

It is not my intention to be convicted of a major offence, however, because I am fighting it I am basically admitting to being the driver of the vehicle when the supposed offence is said to have occurred. Do I implicate myself by fighting this?

If I implicate myself do I accrue the risk of being given demerit points?


Since you lit up the board you now have an idea of the charge.

It is against the car.

The witness has to be there at the trial!
So you choose to go to trial.

If you go in court and admit driving(just don't)

I know everything you need is already posted.

The delays will be your friend.

Cheers
Viper1

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"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 6
So you would advise going to court?

If the charge is against the vehicle will it show up on my record? And will it affect my insurance rates? I reviewed the other threads but the answer is not clear.

Can I proceed in court without admitting to being the driver of the vehicle?


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 493
I think you have learned a lesson.
Lesson 2
don't rely on my answers.

Think about this

To get a conviction the crown needs to prove the event happened.

In your case to prove that they need a witness.

Imagine how hard it is to get all three of you together.

You have at least one stay if not 3.

I have never had a ticket like this so take my advice with 2 grains of salt.

Luck
Viper1

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"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
To charge you specifically as the driver, they'd have to withdraw the charge in advance of the trial, and issue a new one. So you're going to court (and trial presumably) on the original charge as "owner."

Just to clarify, does the bus driver's statement say that he activated his lights prior to stopping?

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http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 am
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To quote his statement "... Then I opened the door to activate the stop sign on the side. I was pretty much at a full stop by then. I saw a vehicle approaching me eastbound, it was about six car lengths away..."

So by the driver's own admission he had not stopped his vehicle when he activated the sign and opened the door.

The witness statement of the two occupants of the vehicle state that the bus had not stopped and that they could not see any lights.

If he activates his lights and signs when I am six car lengths away, on a highway with a posted speed limit of 80kmh, my stopping distance of 13 car lengths would have me stop on the other side of the bus.


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Re: Fail to Stop for School Bus - Owner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 am
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OctoberRain wrote:
The witness statement of the two occupants of the vehicle state that the bus had not stopped and that they could not see any lights.




To clarify... the occupants of the vehicle that is being ticketed.


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