May 27, 2008 04:30 AM Kerry Gillespie Queen's Park Bureau TORONTO STAR Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says. "I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday. But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said. "What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?" McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets. "I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty. This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving. Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said: "There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said. "I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line? More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland. In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices. Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
May 27, 2008 04:30 AM
Kerry Gillespie
Queen's Park Bureau
TORONTO STAR
Jurisdictions around the world are busy banning cellphones in cars but Ontario is looking into broader regulation to encompass all electronic distractions, the premier says.
"I know what they've done in other provinces and other states: they've just dealt with one item, the cellphone," Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday.
But police say drivers tapping addresses into a car's GPS system or emailing on a BlackBerry have big distractions, too, McGuinty said.
"What about the next gadget that they haven't invented yet?"
McGuinty said he has asked Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to look at some form of "next-generation legislation" that would cover existing electronic devices like cellphones and future gadgets.
"I talk to the police and they say ... there's more than just one item (distracting drivers). I've asked Bradley to take a look to see if there's something we might do, which deals with distractors generally, and I think in particular, electronic distractors," said McGuinty.
This appears to be an about-face for McGuinty, who has consistently argued government can't legislate against everything and that a cellphone ban wasn't needed because there were already laws to prevent dangerous driving.
Just six months ago, when asked if Ontario should ban cellphone use while driving, McGuinty said:
"There are provisions right now, to be found in the Highway Traffic Act ...or the Criminal Code that allow for prosecutions for people who are driving carelessly. So, unless and until I get different advice from the people who work our roads, and look to their safety, we will maintain our position," he said.
"I guess one of the issues then becomes, so, where do we draw the line?
More than 50 countries have laws that ban cellphone use by drivers to some degree, including Australia, Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland.
In 2002, Newfoundland became the first province to ban the use of hand-held phones while driving. Nova Scotia and Quebec have recently passed legislation to ban hand-held devices.
Fines range from a low of $100 in Quebec to a high of $400 in Newfoundland
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills. They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre). A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Ban the use of cell phones while driving, of course -- and the sooner the safer -- but it sounds like the good folks at Queen's Park are holding that up until they can breathe life into another of their clumsy ban-everything bills.
They may be wondering if they can go after in-car radios (including satellite radios), for instance. A radio = an electronic device that can result in driver distraction. Cigarette lighters too, for that matter (though they are electrical devices, rather than electronic). Oh, and GPS units, of course. And CD players. And console bins between the front seats (those are neither electronic nor electric, but hey, what the heck, as long as we're banning anything that might distract a driver, let's throw them in too; we can always revise them back out of the legislation if too many potential voters squawk, and as long as we do keep a ban in place it could be a nice little revenue centre).
A ban on cell phone use while driving has been suspiciously long in coming already: that's a serious, correctable safety issue. It should not be further delayed just so it can be used as a headline-grabbing bit to deflect attention from the less well founded provisions in some ban-everything bill.
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Why not just ban cars in general and we all take buses to work. I really think that the genaral pulblic should stand up for our rights and freedom. What is a "electronic gadget" Another big GREY area you can get a ticket for. My car came stock with an ECU/ABS/TractionControl, is that a gadget. We all use them while driving. Total BS..maybe next election you should really consider who to vote for . Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!! I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along. But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue ;) Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!! Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
I once saw a lady drive right up the curb (snowbank) then bounce back down into her lane JUST after exiting Tim's. When I passed her, she was yelling profusely at the coffee spilled all over her blouse and coat. And she didn't even have the sense to pull over. She was just wiping herself down while still driving along.
But I know Tim's is sacred ground for many, so I really feel bad for pointing out this serious issue
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving. I even had a lady rear-end me once while I was stopped at a red. After being wholloped from behind, I looked in my mirror and saw her pull her map down from her face! Grrrrrrrrrr!!
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road. Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device. That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving." We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there..
Another "non-gadget" distraction I have seen on numerous occasion is map-reading while driving...
Oh! One more thing. They better exclude CB radios from the gadget definition list. Truckers would throw a fit. What I find strange is CB's never seem(ed) to cause a problem, but I see folks on cell phones absolutely "tuned-out" from their driving responsibilities. And yet, they're not all that different in function. Hmmmm
These are all good points, Bookm, though I suspect that truckers never *seem* to cause a problem when CB-ing partly because we other drivers usually can't see what the truck driver is actually doing in the cab at the moment when his or her vehicle does something odd on the highway (we're usually too busy just trying to get out of the way and stay alive). Truckers spend a lot of time on the road (well, duh!) and accumulate a lot more driving experience than most of the rest of us, but each of them still relies on one standard Mark I brain and it just isn't wired to carry on a conversation about something other than driving and simultaneously pay sufficient attention to everything that's going on on the road.
Keeping up your side of a cell phone conversation is a new animal and completely different from even talking with somebody else in the car, because the person you're talking to on the phone has none of the on-the-spot clues that will cause them to notice what's happening in your driving situation. You pay attention differently when the other side of a conversation that has nothing to do with your driving is coming into your brain via an electronic device.
That said, though, I don't see how the map reading, GPS adjusting, Timmy spilling, radio adjustring, makeup applying, breakfast cereal eating (yep, I've seen it!) distracted drivers aren't covered already by HTA RSO 1990, cH8, s130, "Careless Driving."
We don't need new and possibly flawed laws to address situations that proven law already covers.
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time :wink:
Bookm wrote:
This is gonna' irk a few readers here,... but, ya' know, I think the drive-thru line at the local Tim Horton's is one of the most dangerous systems out there. Just try watching people trying to drive down the road immediately after leaving the exit. They're trying to pocket their change, get a quick sip of their coffee, and juggle whatever pastry delight caught their attention this time, all at the same time!!
Don't forget to light the smoke at the same time
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear? I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
racer wrote:
casper wrote:
Oh and what about the police cars?, are they not full of electronic "gadgets" like radars,gps, cell phones and computers..go figure. A police chase is on and the officer is trying to input the licence plate of the vehicle ahead, how safe is that.??
Well, the policemen usually (I hope) radio (although this is using an electronic device) to base with the license plates, because I usually see policemen using their computers when quietly parked somewhere. How was your experience about that Mr. Bear?
I'm not a bear ("our" Bear can speak very well for himself!), but I think the electronic stuff inside a police car is not our concern. These are the tools the officer was issued to do his or her job with, and that's that. Now, if he or she were driving while yakking on a private cell phone to a family member, or while playing with a GameBoy, that would be different! But I imagine that sort of thing would rarely happen -- like, never.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
