HTA 144.18

thephoneguy · Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Elmvale, Ontario

My wife recently received a ticket for failing to obey a red light, and was charged under 144.18.
Here's the scenario.
She was already stopped. Green arrow light lit, she proceeded except she went straight through instead of following the arrow.
She was charged under 144.18 instead of the section that relates to failing to follow the direction indicated by the green light.
What are her chances of beating it?

Bookm · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Location: Stratford, Ontario

If it were me, I'd not speak to the Crown. I'd plead not-guilty and wait for my trial date. I would not file for Disclosure. I would wait until the Crown has finished questioning his witness (the officer). Then when it's my turn to question the officer:

- "Was I facing a circular red light?"
<NO>

- "Did I proceed through a circular red light?"
<NO>

I would then read the Statute out loud and ask him if he agrees that you have read 144.18 correctly.

I would NOT take the stand in my own defense or answer ANY questions asked by the Crown or the JP. My closing statement would be, "Your worship, the Crown has failed to prove the necessary elements of Section 144.18 of which I was charged. The Crowns witness appears to have described elements of a different charge which I was not described on the charging document, and therefore. I ask that this charge be dismissed."

If at ANY time, the Crown attempts to amend the charge, I would strongly object. "Your worship, this is not a minor error on the ticket. I am prepared to defend myself against the charge shown on the ticket only. If the Crown is not prepared to proceed with the charge on the ticket, I ask that it be dismissed at this time."

The reason I would NOT talk to the Crown earlier is I don't want to bring the error to his attention. The officer only has 15 days to write a new ticket. The Crown COULD write a Part III withing 6-months (fixing the ticket with a new charge) but it is very unlikely he would do that if you already spent one day in court fighting the original charge

Just my opinion...

Book

thephoneguy · Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Elmvale, Ontario

Thanks Book,
Your opinion has been duly noted. Just an add-on to the original post, the ticket does not specify where the infraction occured. It was in Wasaga Beach, and the ticket only states, "Mosley Street, Wasaga Beach". No indication as to where on Mosley, and that street is long with a number of traffic lights. Also, the issuing officer's name is not clearly legible on the top of the ticket, nor is the year of the vehicle recorded on the ticket. Was wondering if any of these have any bearing on the validity of the ticket?

Bookm · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Location: Stratford, Ontario

All of those omissions can be amended at trial, and the proceedings will commence. If the officers name was missing completely, that would be a different story. Location and (minor) vehicle description omissions are not considered "fatal"

thephoneguy · Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Elmvale, Ontario

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted on our results, in the mean time, I've got to keep her calm as the "big day" approaches.

Bookm · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Location: Stratford, Ontario

Ya, I know it's hard on the nerves, LOL. Just tell her to try to have fun with it and learn as much as possible. It'll make the next one that much easier Wink

I always just paid my tickets until, one day, a friend of the family overheard me whining about some cheesey ticket I got. She sat me down and convinced me to prepare a defense and have it heard in court. She was a friend of my mothers, and she seemed to know what she was talking about. I eventually learned that she was a sitting Justice of the Peace in our local court, LOL. At the time, I didn't even know what that was! I won that first trial and the thrill I felt has encouraged me to learn more and help others stand up for themselves.

thephoneguy · Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Elmvale, Ontario

This is the wife and here is how it happened.......
I was stopped at a red light with a police officer right behind me. Apparently the left turn arrow came on and the car beside me made his turn and i also proceeded straight through the red light. Needless to say the police officer pulled me over right away and i was issued the ticket. It was a very bad day for me and i guess i did not notice the light was only showing a green arrow. At the time the officer pulled me over, I had no idea what I had done. He informed me after he had all my info and gave me a ticket "Red light....proceed before green"...."144.18"
Do I have any chance or should I just sign and send it in?

Bookm · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Location: Stratford, Ontario

Ahh, that's a bit different. I would still plead not-guilty, wait for her court date, show up for court 15 minutes early. An announcement will be made for those who have not spoken to the Prosecutor to form a line. When it's her turn, ask the Crown (prosecutor) to consider a change to Fail to Obey Sign (2 points instead of 3). This is standard procedure and will most likely be accepted by the Crown.

If your feeling gutsy, you could also ask for a reduction in the fine. A couple days ago in court, we were facing a $100 fine. We asked for a reduction to $40. The Crown countered with $50 plus $15 court costs. We would have accepted if we had no case, but we went ahead with a trial instead, and won.

thephoneguy · Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Elmvale, Ontario

But it is still a fact that with the cop behind me, I did stop for the red light and did not proceed till the green arrow was lit. I just went straight instead of turning with the arrow. Im so confused and not sure what to do and time is running out. I have to make some decision.?????????
My husband thinks I was charged under the wrong sub-section. I should have been charged under sub 14 not 18 and he thinks I can beat this ticket. I have never gotten a ticket before, nevermind to fight one.

Bookm · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 91 Location: Stratford, Ontario

Then I'd go back to this plan:

David Chatten · Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 15 Location: Belleville, ON

One option you may wish to argue if you choose to waive your right to a trial and enter a guilty plea, may be to negotiate to a lessor charge of Disobey Lane Light, under section 144(10) of the H.T.A. This option, should the prosecutor agree to it, would reduce the demerit points from 3 down to 2, and your insurance company may also view this as a less serious conviction. I use this strategy quite often and in my jurisdiction, it seems to work well.
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