Got a speeding ticket in a 5 axle tractor trailer in November i was going northbound and as i decended down the hill towards Lawrence, behind the bridge sat a Metro Police Traffic unit. it was like 3am he claims to have clocked me 32km over. 122 in a 90. in the fine amount is $110--WRONG AMOUNT i set a date and received a notice of trial in March of 09 for August 09. now, my question is how to proceed in court with a fine amount error. can i also argue that we were both on a uneven hill is an officer considered an expert in the use of his laser radar for example? and if hes writing tickets, wouldnt he have the basic knowledge to write a proper ticket?
Got a speeding ticket in a 5 axle tractor trailer in November
i was going northbound and as i decended down the hill towards Lawrence, behind the bridge sat a Metro Police Traffic unit. it was like 3am
he claims to have clocked me 32km over. 122 in a 90.
in the fine amount is $110--WRONG AMOUNT
i set a date and received a notice of trial in March of 09 for August 09.
now, my question is how to proceed in court with a fine amount error.
can i also argue that we were both on a uneven hill
is an officer considered an expert in the use of his laser radar for example?
and if hes writing tickets, wouldnt he have the basic knowledge to write a proper ticket?
- Uneven hill makes no difference. - no such thing as "laser radar" - the officer would be an "operator" not an expert - 32 over fine amount is about $232 (guessing)
- Uneven hill makes no difference.
- no such thing as "laser radar"
- the officer would be an "operator" not an expert
- 32 over fine amount is about $232 (guessing)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Off Camber, let me guess: The cop was just past the railroad bridge north of Wynford Drive. :shock: (DVP is part of my commute.) Just to be sure, on the ticket is says you are charged with Speeding, section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, 122 in a 90? $110 sounds like some other offences like disobey sign or whatever... just want to be sure that your ticket definitely has a fatal error. If he did ticket you for speeding 122 in a 90, and wrote down $110 for the fine, then you can get the ticket thrown out - but it takes a bit of an unconventional approach. Check out this explanation (scroll down to "how to force a fatal error): http://www.ticketcombat.com/offences/fines.php Only a limited number of things on tickets are fatal errors. Those include missing defendant's name, missing location, missing date, missing offence or an offence not known to law, filing date beyond 7 days or incorrect set fine. You may do a double-take at what it is suggesting, not showing up to trial or not responding, but the Provincial Offences Act actually requires this (Justice must quash a ticket with a fatal error if the defendant does not respond or show up) and the existing precedent right now is that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error. Clear as mud.
Off Camber, let me guess: The cop was just past the railroad bridge north of Wynford Drive. (DVP is part of my commute.)
Just to be sure, on the ticket is says you are charged with Speeding, section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, 122 in a 90? $110 sounds like some other offences like disobey sign or whatever... just want to be sure that your ticket definitely has a fatal error.
If he did ticket you for speeding 122 in a 90, and wrote down $110 for the fine, then you can get the ticket thrown out - but it takes a bit of an unconventional approach. Check out this explanation (scroll down to "how to force a fatal error):
Only a limited number of things on tickets are fatal errors. Those include missing defendant's name, missing location, missing date, missing offence or an offence not known to law, filing date beyond 7 days or incorrect set fine. You may do a double-take at what it is suggesting, not showing up to trial or not responding, but the Provincial Offences Act actually requires this (Justice must quash a ticket with a fatal error if the defendant does not respond or show up) and the existing precedent right now is that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error. Clear as mud.
yes. he was facing northbound behind the bridge. ive already set a court date for august 17. so under London v. Young, just dont show up and get convicted, then basically appeal? the ticket says "speeding 122km in a 90km section 128. fine is $110. happened at 3:25am. so whats the best way to proceed?
Radar Identified wrote:
Off Camber, let me guess: The cop was just past the railroad bridge north of Wynford Drive. (DVP is part of my commute.)
Just to be sure, on the ticket is says you are charged with Speeding, section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act, 122 in a 90? $110 sounds like some other offences like disobey sign or whatever... just want to be sure that your ticket definitely has a fatal error.
If he did ticket you for speeding 122 in a 90, and wrote down $110 for the fine, then you can get the ticket thrown out - but it takes a bit of an unconventional approach. Check out this explanation (scroll down to "how to force a fatal error):
Only a limited number of things on tickets are fatal errors. Those include missing defendant's name, missing location, missing date, missing offence or an offence not known to law, filing date beyond 7 days or incorrect set fine. You may do a double-take at what it is suggesting, not showing up to trial or not responding, but the Provincial Offences Act actually requires this (Justice must quash a ticket with a fatal error if the defendant does not respond or show up) and the existing precedent right now is that an incorrect set fine is a fatal error. Clear as mud.
yes. he was facing northbound behind the bridge.
ive already set a court date for august 17. so under London v. Young, just dont show up and get convicted, then basically appeal?
Bit of a lengthy response here (apologies in advance): I think the best way to proceed is to simply "not show up" for trial... but there are some risks. I believe that the law is on your side. I don't know if you're interested in reading case law (it can be kinda dry and lengthy), but this particular case describes, almost exactly, your circumstances: R. v. Leikermoser, 2008 To summarize that case: The defendant was charged with speeding 110 in an 80, given a set fine of $112.50 and total payable of $142.50, which is the wrong amount. He opted for a trial and did not show up. The JP at the first trial convicted him because he did not show up, but the Appeal Justice struck that down. The appeal ruling was that failure to appear for trial triggers the same provisions as failure to respond to the ticket, and that's backed up by a couple of other cases (City of Barrie v. Porter, and so on). The appeal ruling was that the ticket had a fatal error, even though the amount was smaller than the correct total. So, the JP at the first trial had only one option: Quash the ticket. Your ticket resembles this quite nicely actually. On the day of trial, the JP is obligated to throw out your ticket. So, you can simply ignore it and wait. Even if a conviction is entered (which isn't likely), you have grounds for an appeal. Yeah, I know - my head is spinning too. :shock: It's one option you can consider. If you don't want to jump through all of those hoops, you can always call the Crown Prosecutor and arrange for a plea-bargain to a lesser offence. (Don't accept anything higher than 15 km/h over the limit!) Most of the Prosecutors in Toronto will work with defendants to arrange some sort of reasonable agreement. You can also see if the officer shows up for trial, although that's rolling the dice. If he does show up, defending speeding charges in court, without time to get disclosure, prepare a case, etc., is as painful as a root canal. Anyway... that's my take on it. Some other members might have some other thoughts and opinions on this as well...
Bit of a lengthy response here (apologies in advance):
I think the best way to proceed is to simply "not show up" for trial... but there are some risks. I believe that the law is on your side. I don't know if you're interested in reading case law (it can be kinda dry and lengthy), but this particular case describes, almost exactly, your circumstances:
To summarize that case: The defendant was charged with speeding 110 in an 80, given a set fine of $112.50 and total payable of $142.50, which is the wrong amount. He opted for a trial and did not show up. The JP at the first trial convicted him because he did not show up, but the Appeal Justice struck that down. The appeal ruling was that failure to appear for trial triggers the same provisions as failure to respond to the ticket, and that's backed up by a couple of other cases (City of Barrie v. Porter, and so on). The appeal ruling was that the ticket had a fatal error, even though the amount was smaller than the correct total. So, the JP at the first trial had only one option: Quash the ticket. Your ticket resembles this quite nicely actually. On the day of trial, the JP is obligated to throw out your ticket. So, you can simply ignore it and wait. Even if a conviction is entered (which isn't likely), you have grounds for an appeal. Yeah, I know - my head is spinning too. It's one option you can consider.
If you don't want to jump through all of those hoops, you can always call the Crown Prosecutor and arrange for a plea-bargain to a lesser offence. (Don't accept anything higher than 15 km/h over the limit!) Most of the Prosecutors in Toronto will work with defendants to arrange some sort of reasonable agreement. You can also see if the officer shows up for trial, although that's rolling the dice. If he does show up, defending speeding charges in court, without time to get disclosure, prepare a case, etc., is as painful as a root canal.
Anyway... that's my take on it. Some other members might have some other thoughts and opinions on this as well...
Thanks for the input, and as i am aware in advance that one cannot refer to legal advice on a web page. :lol: but, as seemingly interesting as this is, the disscussion can keep going and going and I do appreciate your input (thanks for responding) moving on, I just finished read the London V. Young now, i copied the London V. Young case. do you think I can show up a half hour early, throw that on the Prosecutors desk and request it be quashed, then leave? Or, show up, not say a thing, wait for the judge to ask how i plead, then request the Judge to quash the ticket as the ticket is not true on its face? not to be a smart alleck (sp) but I already booked the day off and figured i was going to dance around the courtroom. but all aside, back to the question- can i show up, supply the crown with a copy of London V. Young, request he/she quash it, and if he/she refuses- LEAVE? how do you think this plays?
Thanks for the input, and as i am aware in advance that one cannot refer to legal advice on a web page.
but, as seemingly interesting as this is, the disscussion can keep going and going and I do appreciate your input (thanks for responding)
moving on, I just finished read the London V. Young
now, i copied the London V. Young case.
do you think I can show up a half hour early, throw that on the Prosecutors desk and request it be quashed, then leave?
Or, show up, not say a thing, wait for the judge to ask how i plead, then request the Judge to quash the ticket as the ticket is not true on its face?
not to be a smart alleck (sp) but I already booked the day off and figured i was going to dance around the courtroom.
but all aside, back to the question- can i show up, supply the crown with a copy of London V. Young, request he/she quash it, and if he/she refuses- LEAVE?
Show the prosecutor the error and the charge should be withdrawn. JP's hate time wasting so the faster the better.
Off_Camber wrote:
Thanks for the input, and as i am aware in advance that one cannot refer to legal advice on a web page.
but, as seemingly interesting as this is, the disscussion can keep going and going and I do appreciate your input (thanks for responding)
moving on, I just finished read the London V. Young
now, i copied the London V. Young case.
do you think I can show up a half hour early, throw that on the Prosecutors desk and request it be quashed, then leave?
Or, show up, not say a thing, wait for the judge to ask how i plead, then request the Judge to quash the ticket as the ticket is not true on its face?
not to be a smart alleck (sp) but I already booked the day off and figured i was going to dance around the courtroom.
but all aside, back to the question- can i show up, supply the crown with a copy of London V. Young, request he/she quash it, and if he/she refuses- LEAVE?
how do you think this plays?
Show the prosecutor the error and the charge should be withdrawn. JP's hate time wasting so the faster the better.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Yep. Prosecutor should withdraw the charge, unless he/she is a top-calibre dingbat. I'd probably do kinda what you had in mind: Show up early, go to the Prosecutor, and ask: "Are you going to withdraw the charge?" Then if they said "no," I'd politely ask them if they're familiar with London v. Young, tell them that they're going to lose, and ask them, again, if they want to withdraw the charge or just waste a bunch of time. If they still say no, then I'd simply leave before the trial starts. But that's just me... I think they can still fix the set fine error if an actual trial occurs with you present, but I can't say with complete certainty. Anyone...? Advice on the internet is always caveat emptor, but hopefully some of the input we've given you proves useful.
Yep. Prosecutor should withdraw the charge, unless he/she is a top-calibre dingbat.
I'd probably do kinda what you had in mind: Show up early, go to the Prosecutor, and ask: "Are you going to withdraw the charge?" Then if they said "no," I'd politely ask them if they're familiar with London v. Young, tell them that they're going to lose, and ask them, again, if they want to withdraw the charge or just waste a bunch of time. If they still say no, then I'd simply leave before the trial starts. But that's just me... I think they can still fix the set fine error if an actual trial occurs with you present, but I can't say with complete certainty. Anyone...?
Off_Camber wrote:
Thanks for the input, and as i am aware in advance that one cannot refer to legal advice on a web page.
Advice on the internet is always caveat emptor, but hopefully some of the input we've given you proves useful.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
(DVP is part of my commute.)
