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HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.128
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Need some advice on reaching a plea deal with the prosecutor and how to go about talking to the crown. I'm not here to be lectured ect. I'm aware I made a mistake, and need advice on fixing it. So kindly keep comments about my impulsive decision to yourself.

Backstory:
I'm 19 with a g2 license. Was going home late at night and decided to go down a road that I knew was smooth with zero traffic so I could do a little pull. The road has a fairly steep hill so it was not hard to pick up speed over a short distance and have 5 seconds of fun. Long story short I approach the bottom of the hill, I see headlights on the shoulder on the opposite side of the road. Cherries on, cop pulls me over.
Officer asks if I knew how fast I was going. I said that I knew I was going fast, but did not look down to see how fast I was going. 117km/hr in a 40 zone.

7 day suspension, 7 day impound, Stunt Driving ticket, and speeding ticket for 77km/hr over the limit

Spoke to the officer and explained my financial situation (single mom, student, not working) and took responsibility for my mistake. Officer told me "I'd live". After speaking to my mother, he became remorseful so I assume he didn't believe what I had to say at first. Officer advised me while driving me home to request full disclosure and look over his notes for any mistakes, as well as telling me some officers don't show up for court at least 4 times. Odd? :?

So my question is, what plea deal (if any) do you presume I'll be offered, how do I go about asking for a plea deal, how do I go about speaking to the crown/what advantage does speaking to the crown give me, and should I request an early resolution? I will also be representing myself as I can't afford to pay for paralegal/lawyer.

Side note: No prior speeding offenses, 1 offense for Disobey Lane Light.


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:46 pm 
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I doubt you will be offered any plea deal. I certainly know my Crowns wouldn't have and the chances of him not turning up are almost nil. An officer might miss a simple ticket and will get spanked for it but not for a ticket like this.

77 over on a highway would be taken as very serious but 77 over on a road that warrants a 40 km/her limit is not going to go away easily.

You will need to get a dismissal or acquittal to be able to drive again for a long time either through suspension or eye-bleeding insurance rates so I would be finding a professional to assist. Someone will be along shortly to comment on the best way to select someone.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:15 pm 
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argyll wrote:
I doubt you will be offered any plea deal. I certainly know my Crowns wouldn't have and the chances of him not turning up are almost nil. An officer might miss a simple ticket and will get spanked for it but not for a ticket like this.

77 over on a highway would be taken as very serious but 77 over on a road that warrants a 40 km/her limit is not going to go away easily.

You will need to get a dismissal or acquittal to be able to drive again for a long time either through suspension or eye-bleeding insurance rates so I would be finding a professional to assist. Someone will be along shortly to comment on the best way to select someone.


I'm not planning on driving for at least 5 years, and I'm aware that upon conviction I will get a minimum 30 day suspension as I am a G2 driver with an offense that carries a penalty of 6 points. I know the ticket is not going away easily. I'm not looking for the best way to select someone to represent me. I need to know how to speak to the crown and answers to my other questions. Maybe some tips from anyone who has gone through the process?


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Just make an appointment to go see the prosecutor and throw yourself on the sword...Both stunting and speeding are laid, so they have one to deal away, they are expecting to hear from you or an agent...If the prosecutor offers, I would reccomend taking the speeding charge, it shouldn't hurt as much when it comes to insurance...it is sure to sting though...Given your current situation, you can ask for an extended amount of time to pay.


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:34 pm 
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I would suggest this;
Don't do anything at all - yet.
Appear on the first appearance date and request disclosure - agree to return on whatever date they request if it's an agreeable date to you.
Now that you have the officer's notes - go through them very carefully - looking for errors - you may want to post the notes here redacting personal stuff.
The fact he suggested this leads me to believe the disclosure may not have the make of the measuring device - test times - perhaps he isn't currently certified - assuming this is radar or laser and not pacing.
One step at a time - don't be in hurry with this - it's far too important.


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:54 pm 
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screeech wrote:
I would reccomend taking the speeding charge, it shouldn't hurt as much when it comes to insurance...


It still falls into the serious bracket. Surcharge would be the the same for any offense in the bracket (100% surcharge pretty much guaranteed).


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
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Prosecutors do not have to offer you any kind of plea deal, although sometimes they do. If you are nice and ask if they will give you some kind of deal then maybe, but no guarantees. All you can do is ask nicely!

Is it a SUMMONS for both tickets or is one/both a NOTICE OF OFFENCE?

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:11 pm 
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It would have to be a summons for both... There is no way they would proceed to trial on both charges, the prosecutor will offer you a deal if you are willing to plead guilty to one...


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:41 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Prosecutors do not have to offer you any kind of plea deal, although sometimes they do. If you are nice and ask if they will give you some kind of deal then maybe, but no guarantees. All you can do is ask nicely!

Is it a SUMMONS for both tickets or is one/both a NOTICE OF OFFENCE?


It's a summons for both.


Last edited by BRBrown97 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:43 pm 
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karra wrote:
I would suggest this;
Don't do anything at all - yet.
Appear on the first appearance date and request disclosure - agree to return on whatever date they request if it's an agreeable date to you.
Now that you have the officer's notes - go through them very carefully - looking for errors - you may want to post the notes here redacting personal stuff.
The fact he suggested this leads me to believe the disclosure may not have the make of the measuring device - test times - perhaps he isn't currently certified - assuming this is radar or laser and not pacing.
One step at a time - don't be in hurry with this - it's far too important.


It wouldn't make sense for the officer not to be certified considering he was the Supervisor of the traffic division r.i.p. to me lol


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:50 pm 
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screeech wrote:
It would have to be a summons for both... There is no way they would proceed to trial on both charges, the prosecutor will offer you a deal if you are willing to plead guilty to one...


I don't know if they'll give me the option of pleading guilty to one and dropping the other considering I was going 77km/hr over the speed limit in a 40km/hr zone. They might try me for both.


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:59 am 
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I totally disagree...That is why they lay both charges, stunt and speeding...so they have wiggle room to make a deal...I would be more than shocked if they didn't...please let us know how it goes...


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1477
Remember that the summons date is NOT your trial date.

At the summons date you can:
- Just plead guilty (not adviseable).
- Ask for disclosure and plead not guilty and ask for a trial date.
- Ask for a deal and then request disclosure before you decide how to plead (they will set another summons date for you which is not the trial date either).

The prosecutor will probably meet with you before the court starts. So at first, just ask if there is any kind of deal they might be willing to offer you, then after they offer you a deal, then you can ask if you can review disclosure before you decide whether to take the deal or or not, and usually they will say yes and set another summons date for you.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 658
Yes, it will be one or the other.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: HELP: Stunt Driving (117 km/hr in a 40) + Speeding sec.1
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 118
jsherk is right, they do not "have to" offer you any kind of deal, but they always do, the reason is, they do not want to deal with the possibility of you getting off on a technicality and they prefer a guaranteed win over a "most likely" win scenario.
Once you go to court, anything can happen, even best officer testimonies at times are brought into question, especially when the defendant is not rattled and he/she does not self incriminate.

Not to mention, going through the entire process of swearing in the officer and the rest of the process/procedure is time consuming and it slows down the courts, this puts a larger load on them, which it enable more people down the road to file for 11b motions.

Combination of all these factors is what makes them offer you deals, now, depending on the prosecutor and the charge, he/she might want to drop one for the other or offer reduced charge on both. Given your situation one is dependent on the other, most likely he/she will drop one for the other.

Just an FYI, the fact that you won't be driving for next few years will not help your insurance, because once there is laps in your coverage, your rate will go up to a novice driver rate and all your driving experience is out the window.


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