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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Hi,
I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?

Ticket Scenario:

I was going down a hill with a car in front of me (2 lane street). The police officer was in front of us at the top of the hill. I did not see any radar in his hand, only him waving for the car in front of me and myself to pull over. I have no idea how he could have gauged how fast I was going, especially being behind the car in front of me with or without a radar.

Any advice is welcome, thanks.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1477
Congratulations, you have a fatal error!

Do NOT respond to the ticket. Put the ticket in a safe place (and maybe scan a copy of it as well for safe keeping).

There are two outcomes when you do not respond to the ticket:
(1) A JP will look over the ticket and if they notice the error, they will quash it and charge will be dropped and you will not hear anything more about it.
(2) A JP will look over the ticket and they will not notice the error, and you will be found guilty and convicted of the charge.

If #2 happens, then you immediately file an appeal saying the JP made an error (you will have to pay the fine to file the appeal). You will be given a trial date for the appeal. At the trial, when called up, you simply produce the original ticket you have with no set fine and no total payable and you tell the Judge that the JP made an error and they should have quashed the ticket because there was a fatal error on it. The charge will be overturned, the conviction removed and your money for the original fine reimbursed.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:13 am 
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Posts: 58
Bud416 wrote:
Hi,
I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?


It is possible that the officer will notice their error and not file the ticket. Call the court in a week and speak to a court clerk. Provide them with the ticket number and ask if the ticket has been filed. If the matter has not been filed, call them back in another week and a half. Court contact information by city can be found here: https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... esses/poa/

If the matter has been filed, it will be important to know what information has been filed with the court by the Officer in determining how to respond.

For most matters, an Officer can re-serve a defendant within 6 months of the offence date. Although for simple speeding matters this would be very uncommon.

_________________
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:25 pm 
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Posts: 658
HUGELY uncommon. You would have had to do something to make yourself very memorable indeed. OTD is bang on that the officer may well have shredded the ticket already which does leave you in the lurch a wee bit but is better than having the ticket correct !

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 pm
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This sounds like the best way to handle this. Although if the officer notices his mistake and files the ticket with a set fine, what would be the next steps? Would I then take jsherk's advice and just not respond to the ticket?

Assuming nothing gets filed, I would be off the hook completely?

OTD Legal wrote:
Bud416 wrote:
Hi,
I received a speeding ticket today (73km in a 50km zone). The ticket has all the correct information, the only missing information is the SET FINE and the TOTAL PAYABLE, both of these items have nothing written in the boxes.... Any advice on how to proceed with a ticket with this issue?


It is possible that the officer will notice their error and not file the ticket. Call the court in a week and speak to a court clerk. Provide them with the ticket number and ask if the ticket has been filed. If the matter has not been filed, call them back in another week and a half. Court contact information by city can be found here: https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on. ... esses/poa/

If the matter has been filed, it will be important to know what information has been filed with the court by the Officer in determining how to respond.

For most matters, an Officer can re-serve a defendant within 6 months of the offence date. Although for simple speeding matters this would be very uncommon.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1477
Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
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They say every time an officer writes a ticket with a fatal flaw an angel earns his wings :)

Oh it's a "wonderful life"

jsherk wrote:
Congratulations, you have a fatal error!


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:00 pm
Posts: 58
jsherk wrote:
Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.


It will depend on what information the Officer has filed with the court. If he has filed his copy of the ticket, which is the important copy, with the missing information completed, then not appearing for a trial date or allowing the matter to go to a non-response hearing will result in a conviction.

_________________
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 pm
Posts: 11
Other than calling the court to see if the ticket has been filed, how would I know if the officer has filled in the missing information?

This is why not responding to the ticket is concerning. If he files the ticket, is there a way to find out if he inserted the fine amount?

Would I then need to respond to the ticket with Option 3 for the Trial Option?

Thanks

OTD Legal wrote:
jsherk wrote:
Yes, if nothing gets filed then you are off the hook. If it gets filed and JP notices then mistake then you are also off the hook.

If it gets filed and the JP does not notice the mistake (or the officer corrects before filing it) then you still need to NOT respond and do an APPEAL when you get notice of the conviction.


It will depend on what information the Officer has filed with the court. If he has filed his copy of the ticket, which is the important copy, with the missing information completed, then not appearing for a trial date or allowing the matter to go to a non-response hearing will result in a conviction.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:49 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1477
You can call the clerk at the provincial offences office and ask them what date the ticket was filed on. If they say it wasn't filed, then that is good news. If they say it was filed, you can go ask to see the original that was filed and see if the information was filled in or not.

But officer is NOT allowed to change the ticket after he gives it to you. So you do NOT want to respond, even if the officer filled in the missing information. You will definitely be found guilty if he fills in the missing information, but then you immediately file an APPEAL (not a re-opening) and show up to appeal trial with your copy of the ticket that shows the information was missing.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 pm
Posts: 11
Does that have to be done in person if it was filed and I want to see what the officer changed on the ticket or can i just ask over the phone? What a waste of time if he filed the ticket with the missing information... Is there not a system in place that would not allow him to file the ticket with missing pertinent information?

I'm a little confused on when I would file an appeal, would I get a letter in the mail stating I was found guilty and I would file an appeal based on the ruling and the fatal error on my ticket?

Appreciate the advice


jsherk wrote:
You can call the clerk at the provincial offences office and ask them what date the ticket was filed on. If they say it wasn't filed, then that is good news. If they say it was filed, you can go ask to see the original that was filed and see if the information was filled in or not.

But officer is NOT allowed to change the ticket after he gives it to you. So you do NOT want to respond, even if the officer filled in the missing information. You will definitely be found guilty if he fills in the missing information, but then you immediately file an APPEAL (not a re-opening) and show up to appeal trial with your copy of the ticket that shows the information was missing.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:26 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1477
The officer probably should not file it, but could filing a whole stack of tickets and not notice the error.

You can probably ask on the phone what the set fine and total payable says. If they give you a number then you know it was filled in. Once you are convicted you should receive a notice, and that is when you file the appeal.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 pm
Posts: 11
Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
Posts: 339
Bud416 wrote:
Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?


You won't find the definition of a fatal error in the act it self, instead it is contained in an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling called City of London vs. Young. Here is a link to it http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2 ... CA0429.htm

Also worth reading is the Provincial Offences Act. This is the enabling legislation that allows police officers and other enforcement agencies to issue tickets. This doesn't just apply to traffic tickets but to all offences for which a ticket might be issued. Here is a link to the Act https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33

The court ruling in this case is talking about the part of the Provincial Offences Act that allows courts to find a person guilty when they don't respond to their ticket. The court ruled that in order to find someone guilty by default the ticket must be correct and regular on it's face. The court decided that among other things having an incorrect set fine on the ticket meant that it was not correct and regular on its face and thus someone could not be found guilty by default if the set fine on the ticket was not correct.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:45 pm
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Perfect, thank you very much.

I will call the provincial offence offices tomorrow to check on the ticket

daggx wrote:
Bud416 wrote:
Thanks jsherk.

Does the Ontario highway traffic act state anywhere online that a missing fine on a ticket is indeed a fatal error and would be a successful reason to appeal a conviction?


You won't find the definition of a fatal error in the act it self, instead it is contained in an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling called City of London vs. Young. Here is a link to it http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2 ... CA0429.htm

Also worth reading is the Provincial Offences Act. This is the enabling legislation that allows police officers and other enforcement agencies to issue tickets. This doesn't just apply to traffic tickets but to all offences for which a ticket might be issued. Here is a link to the Act https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p33

The court ruling in this case is talking about the part of the Provincial Offences Act that allows courts to find a person guilty when they don't respond to their ticket. The court ruled that in order to find someone guilty by default the ticket must be correct and regular on it's face. The court decided that among other things having an incorrect set fine on the ticket meant that it was not correct and regular on its face and thus someone could not be found guilty by default if the set fine on the ticket was not correct.


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