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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:00 pm 
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I spoke with a court clerk today and he says the ticket has been filed, but no set fine or total payable amount was inserted.

His recommendation was to respond to the ticket with Option 2 or Option 3 and once the process begins, the JP will recognize the mistake and quash the ticket.

He did not recommend not responding to the ticket.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Remember who the clerk works for (not you)!

If you respond with option 2 (early resolution) or option 3 trial, the prosecutor does not have to drop the charge and then you end up at a trial and then they can amend the ticket and add the set fine and total payable back in. Its only a fatal error if you do not go to trial. If you go to trial, then they are allowed to fix any fatal errors.

If it was me, I would NOT respond to the ticket, and would wait to deal with it at an appeal if the JP does not quash it (which they should if there is no set fine).

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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:52 pm 
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I did not realize that if I go to trial they are allowed to fix the fatal error... I thought If I select option 3, I would meet with the JP prior to a trial and they would see the error and quash the ticket right there and then.

You're essentially saying if I respond to this ticket, my right to appeal the outcome due to a fatal error is no longer possible as the JP will amend the ticket with the correct fine information (why would the JP choose not to amend the ticket unless he/she is feeling extra nice).


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:09 pm 
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Bud416 wrote:
You're essentially saying if I respond to this ticket, my right to appeal the outcome due to a fatal error is no longer possible as the JP will amend the ticket with the correct fine information (why would the JP choose not to amend the ticket unless he/she is feeling extra nice).


There is a provision in one of the Acts (Courts of Justice or Provincial Offences) that says a Justice of the Peace can ONLY AMEND a ticket at TRIAL. And it is usually done at the request of the Prosecutor. The trial must actually start in order for them to amend the ticket. If you choose option 3 for a trial, but don't show up, then the trial will not start and the JP can NOT amend it. You have to choose an option for trial and then show up for the trial and the trial must actually start (they ask you how you plead Guilty or Not Guilty) in order for them to be able to fix the ticket. If you show up and the trial starts and they amend the ticket then yes you are losing your right to appeal.

If you ask for a trial but do not show up, or you just do not respond to the ticket at all, the ticket will go before a JP for review and since you are not there in either of these cases, there is no trial and they can not amend it. They can only look at the ticket as-is and decide that it is ok and you should be convicted, or they decide that there is problem with it and it should be dropped. If they decide it is ok and convict you (which they shouldn't because the set fine is missing, but they could just not be paying attention and miss that error), this is when you can appeal.

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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:27 pm 
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Thanks for the explanation.

Why does the prosecutor not have the right to quash the ticket if I were to choose option 2 and meet with him?

Technically no trial has started but I'm trying to avoid wasting anyone's time taking a case with a fatal error to trial. If i meet with the prosecutor prior to trial to let him know that I will not be showing up for a trial due to the fatal error, wouldn't he quash the ticket right there and then to avoid wasting the courts time going to trial for a ticket that has a fatal error?

I thought the prosecutor's goal was to limit the amount of cases going to trial.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:48 pm 
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Some prosecutors are great and will always do the right thing. Other prosecutors will do just about anything to get the conviction.

So yes the prosecutor SHOULD agree to have the charge withdrawn when you show them the error, but they might not. And if you tell the prosecuto about the problem up front, they could also withdraw the charge but then ask the officer to re-issue a new ticket with the correct information on it. The officer has 6 months to give you a new ticket.

If you just don't respond and don't tell them about the problem, then the JP should quash it (or you appeal if he doesn't) and you can not be re-charged for the same charge again and the officer can not re-issue a new ticket.

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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Bud416 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation.

Why does the prosecutor not have the right to quash the ticket if I were to choose option 2 and meet with him?

Technically no trial has started but I'm trying to avoid wasting anyone's time taking a case with a fatal error to trial. If i meet with the prosecutor prior to trial to let him know that I will not be showing up for a trial due to the fatal error, wouldn't he quash the ticket right there and then to avoid wasting the courts time going to trial for a ticket that has a fatal error?


Be careful talking to the prosecutor. Remember that if your ticket was issued less then 6 months ago the prosecutor has the option of withdrawing the ticket with the error on it and then issuing you with a new, error free, summons. If that happens you lose your advantage and will be forced into a regular trial. So at the very least don't tell them what is going on until the 6 months statute of limitations has expired so they can't recharge you. Even then it is probably best not to give away your strategy to the opposition, the less they know about what you are doing the better it is for you. The best thing to do at this point is to just sit back and let the system run it's course.

Bud416 wrote:
I thought the prosecutor's goal was to limit the amount of cases going to trial.


The prosecutor's goal is to get as many people as they can to plead guilty. Dropping charges outright looks bad on their record, so they don't like to do it unless they are really forced to.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:59 am 
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What is the expected timeline on receiving the letter in the mail (either stating it was quashed or stating I am guilty and have the option to appeal?)


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Bud416 wrote:
What is the expected timeline on receiving the letter in the mail (either stating it was quashed or stating I am guilty and have the option to appeal?)


If the ticket is quashed, you will not get a letter in the mail. You will need to follow up with the court after the non-response review of your ticket. You would only get a notice of conviction if the Justice did not notice the error and convicted.

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The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:23 am 
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I went through this with a red light ticket I got back in 2011 that had an incorrect set fine. I got the ticket on May 18th but they didn't send me a letter saying I had been convicted until July 29th, so it can take some time. Also, as OTD pointed out, you will only get a letter if you are convicted. If they quash the ticket you won't hear from them. If it were me I would wait about a month and then give them a call to see what the status of your ticket is. If they say it has been quashed then you have won and don't need to take any further action. If they say it is still pending then thank them for the info and hang up, no need to elaborate on your legal strategy. I would then give it another couple of weeks and call again.


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:04 am 
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Okay - so in jsherks post a few above this, he states that a fatal error can only be corrected at trial. I was at court the other day to set a date. There was a lady in front of me that was there to set a date as well for a cell phone / texting charge. During the discussions between her and the JP, the JP noted the HTA reference was incorrect and asked the prosecutor to amend the ticket. The JP then asked the lady if this was acceptable to her - and her, not knowing any better, agreed to it.

Is this an error in procedure and would the lady have any recourse available to her?


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Why were you at court to set a date?

What happened?

Was your ticket a SUMMONS or a NOTICE OF OFFENCE?

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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:57 pm 
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A wrong section number is not fatal and is amendable...nothing wrong with that...You don't even need to put a section number on a ticket


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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:04 pm 
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@riggyzomba - Just realized you are not the original author of this thread! She agreed to the change so there is probably nothing she can do now. But it sounds like it was a SUMMONS if you were there to set a date, so I think you MUST show up to those dates. Now when setting a date a summons hearing, this is not a trial as far as I am aware, so not sure if you can actually amend a summons before the trial starts or not, so maybe more to this.

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Re: Missing Set Fine - Missing Total Payable
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:48 am 
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I was there to set a date for the insecure load ticket that I have posted in another thread. The reason we had to set a date was due to the per diem prosecutor, during my initial trial date, requesting more substantiating documentation that I was given permission to appear on behalf of the individual that received the ticket. We now have another trial date set for February 9th. The lady with the cell phone charge was also present at my first trial date and she too was postponed at that time as she had not yet asked / received disclosure. She was the one I made reference to in the other post as well.

The reason we could not set a date at that time was due to the fact that the prosecutor did not have the officers' schedule for the new year yet. (It is the same officer in both of our cases).

I think you could hear my exasperation when the JP asked to amend her ticket - she asked me after if what she did was a bad thing....


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