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Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Hello All,

I am helping my father with a cell phone ticket (S78.1(1)). He received it within the City of Toronto. The trial is scheduled for January 6th 2017 however I would like to request for a second adjournment for the trial date because we need more time to prepare our defense. I have not yet requested for disclosure but will be doing so first thing tomorrow.

My father requested for option 3 when he originally got the ticket, plead not guilty and request for a trial. His original scheduled trial was October 23rd but requested for the first adjournment to the trial date because he was going on vacation, which was granted. This is where we're at now.

With the trial only being 3 days away:

1a. how likely will my request for another adjournment be granted?
1b. Should I go to the courthouse to put forth another motion for adjournment or go to trial and request for an adjournment?
2. I am not sure if my father had requested for the officer to be present when he filled out the notice of trial form. If I call the court clerk, will they be able to advise me over the phone or will this have to be done in person?
3. Is there anything else I should do at this time?

Thanks for your help


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
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Well you have the right to see the disclosure and the case against you. Will you argue that you did not know about asking for disclosure until just recently and that is why you are asking now?

Most likely the adjournment will be granted if you argue that you still need time to review the disclosure.

What was the date of the original ticket?

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:03 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Well you have the right to see the disclosure and the case against you. Will you argue that you did not know about asking for disclosure until just recently and that is why you are asking now?

Most likely the adjournment will be granted if you argue that you still need time to review the disclosure.

What was the date of the original ticket?


Yes, I will use that approach that I was not familiar with the option of disclosure, what it was and that is why I'm asking now.

The date of the original ticket was August 23rd, 2016

I called the City court house and at this point they advised me to submit a notion for a earlier court appearance to make a request with the JP for adjournment of the trial date. Does this make sense? I can only submit a notion for trial date adjournment only once?


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:22 pm 
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What I would do is fax a request for disclosure to both the prosecutors office and the clerks office. I would include in the request, the fact that you will plan to ask for an adjournment as you will need more time to review it.

Even if they have it ready before the trial date, that is not enough time, so I would just pick it up from the prosecutor at the trial date and tell the prosecutor you are going to ask for an adjournment. When you are called up, you tell the JP you want an adjournment and need more time to review the disclosure and prepare a defense.

The JP may or may not allow an adjournment.

If the JP allows it, then great and you set a new date and come back then.

The JP may not allow it, and may say that you can go review the notes in the hall, and then the trial will start when you come back. If this happens, make sure you complain that "it is not enough time to properly review the notes and properly prepare a defense".

It is VERY important that you complain, because if you are forced into trial and lose, then it is a really good reason for an appeal to say that you were not given proper ability to prepare a defense.

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Thanks for the advice Jsherk, I will do this.

On the trial date, am I still able to strike a plea bargain or does this need to be done before with the prosecutor?

Who do I ask at the courtroom on the trial date if the officer is present? Am I still able to strike a plea baragin with the prosecutor if I know the officer is present for the trial?


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Yes, plea bargains can be made right up to the trial starting and even during a trial (more common in criminal cases). Having said that there isn't really any other offence that a mobile phone ticket can be bargained down to.

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:33 pm 
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argyll wrote:
Yes, plea bargains can be made right up to the trial starting and even during a trial (more common in criminal cases). Having said that there isn't really any other offence that a mobile phone ticket can be bargained down to.


In the event we would settle for a lesser fine, is this common for cell phone tickets?


Last edited by forevergone on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:42 pm 
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You can always ask... it never hurts to ask!

The prosecutor may or may not agree with your request, but it is ultimately the JP that needs to decide about whether or not they will lower the fine.

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
You can always ask... it never hurts to ask!

The prosecutor may or may not agree with your request, but it is ultimately the JP that needs to decide about whether or not they will lower the fine.


Duly noted, thanks.

I faxed the request at lunch and the disclosure was ready for pick up within 2 hours, so the City of Toronto is quite diligent with these requests... I've since gone to pick up the disclosure.

Having said this, what are my chances to request for an adjournment on the basis that I don't have sufficient time to review the disclosure? I've attached the received disclosure.

The notes indicate that the police offer did have video footage but was not presented with the documentation when received. What should I do now?


Attachments:
CCF01032017_00002.jpg
CCF01032017_00002.jpg [ 29.07 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]
CCF01032017_000011.JPG
CCF01032017_000011.JPG [ 72.86 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]
CCF01032017_000001.JPG
CCF01032017_000001.JPG [ 70.11 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]
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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Well the officers notes are pretty clear, so without video the chances of winning are slim to none. Your dads statement did not help either. Will video help? We won't know until we see it! You do have the right to see the video (if it exists) whether or not the prosecution plans to use it or not.

So you could ask for adjournment based on the fact that your dad wants to seek legal advice and the fact that you did not get a copy of the video yet.

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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:24 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Well the officers notes are pretty clear, so without video the chances of winning are slim to none. Your dads statement did not help either. Will video help? We won't know until we see it! You do have the right to see the video (if it exists) whether or not the prosecution plans to use it or not.

So you could ask for adjournment based on the fact that your dad wants to seek legal advice and the fact that you did not get a copy of the video yet.


Thanks for the advice so far jsherk, it is really appreciated.

When you mentioned without the video, the chances of winning for the prosecutor are slim to none? Or for us?

Also, how do we go about requesting for the video? Do we have to submit a memo through fax?


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Slim to none for you. Basically the officer will say what he saw and that will be enough to convict.

I would fax a request for it to both prosecutor and the clerk, just like you did for disclosure. Video is part of disclosure, but if you did not ask for it the first time then you should ask for it now.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:37 am
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in the event that the cop doesn't show up, is there a good chance this case can be dismissed or will it be adjourned to another date?


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
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Did the officer neglect to put a location on this ticket or did you blank it out for privacy reasons? If the location is missing does anyone know if that still constitutes a fatal error? I know ticket combat says that no location is a fatal error, but the info on that site is quite old.


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Re: Cell Phone Ticket. Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:25 am 
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daggx wrote:
Did the officer neglect to put a location on this ticket or did you blank it out for privacy reasons? If the location is missing does anyone know if that still constitutes a fatal error? I know ticket combat says that no location is a fatal error, but the info on that site is quite old.


I didn't blank it out. It was like that on the ticket. Anyone else care to chime in if this is a fatal error? If so, how should I proceed for tomorrow's trial? The officer's notes did mention the location though.


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